Trial of Pedro de Zulueta, jun., on a Charge of Slave Trading, under 5 Geo. IV, cap. 113, on Friday the 27th, Saturday the 28th, and Monday the 30th of October, 1843, at the Central Criminal Court, Old Bailey, London / A Full Report from the Short-hand Notes of W. B. Gurney, Esq.

by Pedro de Zulueta; William Brodie Gurney

5058. Mr. Forster.] But in speaking of the amount of slave trade carried on at those places which you have just named, do you speak of those in comparison with the bights, and also with the Spanish and Portuguese settlements to the south of the Line?—I speak of the amount of captures that have been made there. The south was left very nearly in the same state in which the north was. The cruizing of the squadron was almost entirely confined to the bights.

5059. To the south of the Line they could not cruize, could they?—Yes, they could cruize near the Portuguese settlements, for the court practically got over the article in the treaty under which captures were forbidden to the southward of the Line, by establishing, which they did in 1838, the principle, that the national character of any vessel was to be taken from the residence of the owner, the place where he carried on his mercantile business, and also from the course of trade in which the vessel was engaged; and as there could be no foreign Portuguese slave trade, for Portugal has no colonies to supply with slaves, we were sure to make the vessel either Brazilian or Spanish. She was captured under Portuguese colours, and with Portuguese papers, but the treaty had given us a right to search her any where, either north or south; it had not given us the right to detain her south of the Line, if she was bonâ fide Portuguese; but if captured as a Portuguese vessel under the Portuguese flag, and with Portuguese papers, she was sent up to Sierra Leone, and was almost certain to be condemned either as a Brazilian or a Spaniard.

5060. That decision was come to in 1838?—Yes.

5061. Before that time the impression had prevailed that the slave trade from the Portuguese settlements was protected?—There was no seizure to the south of the Line to render a decision necessary; vessels were seized immediately close to the Line, in several cases, and it was never thought of; that was before the Portuguese flag was so much used, and the cause of the Portuguese flag being so much used by slavers, was the Spanish treaty having given the right to seize, on the ground of equipment; that did not take place till 1836. I was at home in that year, and on my return in December 1837, I found that almost every vessel on the coast was sailing under Portuguese colours, and then we met this new circumstance by an alteration in the interpretation of the treaty.

5062. Mr. Aldam.] If the owner had been a bonâ fide Portuguese, would the vessel have been still condemned?—If the owner had been a Portuguese, resident in Havannah, we should have treated the vessel as a Spanish vessel; and if at Rio Janeiro, we should have treated it as a Brazilian vessel.

5063. But in the case of a Portuguese merchant resident in a Portuguese possession, and carrying on his business there?—We should have looked at the course of trade in which the vessel was engaged, and the Portuguese having no colonies would not require slaves.

5064. Mr. Forster.] Do you consider the Spanish and Portuguese settlements to the south of the Line the places at which the slave trade will be last overcome?—The part of the coast at which the slave trade is carried on depends entirely on the cruizers; you may knock up the slave trade on any part of the coast you please, if the cruizing is properly conducted. The largest slave trade on the coast was the slave trade at the Gallinas; by the system of blockade that Captain Denman adopted there, he completely destroyed it.

5065. That blockade must be continued to make it permanent in its results?—Yes; and he never went away for water or provisions, without leaving a vessel to supply his place. He could always regulate the time that he should remain, knowing of course, to a day, how long his water and provisions would last him.

5066. But to render that remedy effectual and permanent, vessels of war must continue at the Gallinas?—Yes; but if you blockade the rivers, where the slave trade has been carried on for a number of years, and completely shut up the slave trade for a year or two, you destroy the system of slave trade in that part.

5067. Chairman.] You think the machinery cannot be re-established in that part?—It may be re-established, but in the meantime there is no mart for the slaves; they are brought down and lodged in the barracoons, and the feeding of the slaves completely ruins the slave owner.