Trial of Pedro de Zulueta, jun., on a Charge of Slave Trading, under 5 Geo. IV, cap. 113, on Friday the 27th, Saturday the 28th, and Monday the 30th of October, 1843, at the Central Criminal Court, Old Bailey, London / A Full Report from the Short-hand Notes of W. B. Gurney, Esq.

by Pedro de Zulueta; William Brodie Gurney

5442. You have seen that British manufactures are, to some extent at least, employed as instruments of barter for slaves?—Yes.

5443. Indirectly through Brazil and Cuba, and from England, goods are sold to persons who would use them in barter for slaves?—Yes.

5444. Therefore, to a certain extent, British trade gives facilities for the slave trade?—Yes.

5445. Do you conceive that it would be possible, with advantage to the cause of putting down the slave trade, to have any further restrictions upon British trade on the coast of Africa: do you believe that it would be advisable to prohibit absolutely dealing in lawful articles with slavers or with slave factories?—I consider it to be undesirable to impose any restrictions.

5446. Will you state your reasons?—I think that no restrictions whatever could be drawn up applying to any description of goods that might not materially interfere with the legitimate trade.

5447. And you believe that it would be a serious injury to the people of Africa, and to the cause of civilization in Africa, if lawful trade were interfered with and impeded?—I do; I would not have any restrictions whatever upon the commercial intercourse of our vessels, to which only of course our law would apply, with any port on the coast, whatever her character was with regard to slave trading.

5448. You conceive that although some additional facility to the slave trade may arise from the lawful traffic, on the balance much more good accrues?—I think so. I think there are positive advantages in gaining an entrance for our vessels to those ports where the slave trade is carried on: that information of the character of the people and of their mode of trade is obtained, and facilities offered to the squadron cruizing on the coast and visiting those rivers; and also that at any time, if, from the checks given to the slave trade by more stringent cruizing in that part, the natives should be desirous of turning their attention to lawful commerce, there are the means of doing it at once ready to their hands. It might happen anywhere that legitimate trade, from strict cruizing, would become a desirable one for the natives; but they would not have the means of carrying it on if British vessels were forbidden to enter those ports.

5449. Is it desirable that the natives should see a lawful trade offered to them by the parties and nations who are now connected with the unlawful traffic themselves?—I think it is.

5450. If you prohibited the access of English vessels and English trade to the suspected ports, should you be able under any existing treaties, or should you be likely to be able under any future treaties, to prohibit the access to those ports of foreign vessels engaged in the supply off lawful articles?—I do not think it could be done.

5451. Unless you could so prohibit the access of foreign vessels, you could not in any way prevent the supply of those articles which are requisite to be used in barter for slaves?—No.