5534. Then you conceive that both the social and moral condition of the negroes there would be improved, as they are now constituted, if they were placed in the West Indies instead of in Sierra Leone?—I think so; both for those who are left at Sierra Leone, and for those who are removed, it would be better.
5535. Do you think that it would be desirable to give the negro the option whether he would go to the West Indies or not?—Certainly not; it is never done now, and the Act of Parliament does not even contemplate such an option being given; the negro is taken to Sierra Leone, and located there, without his opinion or wishes being consulted, and in the same way he might be transported to the West Indies.
5536. Mr. W. Patten.] Is it obligatory in some of the treaties to take them to Sierra Leone?—The new Spanish treaty requires that they shall be established in a territory of the country to which the cruizer that has made the capture belongs.
5537. Chairman.] But must not the adjudication be on the coast of Africa?—Not necessarily; Spanish vessels may be condemned at Havannah; and in some cases when Portuguese vessels have been captured in the West Indies, the slaves have been sent to Jamaica, and various other islands in the West Indies; and when the vessel is sent over to Sierra Leone, she comes over to us without the slaves; the slaves having been landed in the first instance, so as to save them a second voyage across the Atlantic; but with regard to vessels seized in the West Indies, which are liable to condemnation under the Spanish treaty, the Havannah court would condemn them, and the slaves would then be sent as Dr. Madden has sent them, to one of our West India colonies.
5538. Do you conceive that foreign powers would entertain, or be justified in entertaining, any objection to such a distribution?—No, they would not entertain it, and I do not think that they would be justified in entertaining it; on the contrary, it was the case in former days that the vessels that were condemned by the court at Havannah had their slaves located in the island of Cuba; but the planters cried out against it very loudly; and it was at their suggestion and their request that we sent away the negroes to our own West India colonies.
5539. By the treaties it is arranged that the captured negroes should be planted within the colonies of the capturing party?—It is stipulated in the seventh Article of the Portuguese treaty and the old Spanish treaty: “As to the slaves, they shall receive from the mixed commission a certificate of emancipation, and shall be delivered over to the government on whose territory the commission which shall have so judged them shall be established to be employed as servants or free labourers.” The Act never contemplates any option whatever being exercised by the persons seized, because it allows of their being drafted into the army or navy, without any reference to their own will.
5540. Would the possible objection of foreign nations be stronger if we engaged in a system of colonial emigration from the coast of Africa, from other points than Sierra Leone?—I mentioned yesterday that we could not go beyond the limits of British jurisdiction in procuring emigrants, without appearing to give a sanction to those practices for which we have been complaining against other nations of late years, both the French and Dutch.
5541. In placing the emancipated slaves in islands where they would be engaged in cultivating sugar, you would be in fact compelling the slave trader to put down the slave trade itself in a great degree?—Yes; I think that a great advantage, causing our efforts for the suppression of the slave trade to operate in encouraging the cultivation of sugar in our own colonies.
5542. In as far as it went, it would cheapen the very produce, the dearness of which now constitutes the great inducement for carrying on the slave trade?—Yes; the best way of putting down the slave trade is our cultivating that produce in such a manner that it can compete with slave-grown produce; and every thing that we do in adding to the difficulty of carrying slaves across the Atlantic, adds to the price of labour and the price of sugar in the slave-growing colonies.
5543. Every thing that we do with a view to encourage the lawful produce, and to induce the negroes of Africa to get what they require in a lawful way, diminishes the temptation to carry on the slave trade, and co-operates with the cruizers in putting it down?—Certainly. There is a passage with respect to enlisting negroes who are condemned by the courts, without any reference to their own will; it occurs in the 22d clause of the Act of 5 Geo. 4, c. 112: “It shall be lawful for His Majesty, his heirs, and successors, and such officers, civil or military, as shall, by any general or special order of the King in Council, be from time to time appointed to receive, protect, and provide for such persons as shall be so condemned, either to enter and enlist the same, or any of them, into His Majesty’s land or sea service, as soldiers, seamen, or marines, or to bind the same or any of them, whether of full age or not, as apprentices, for any term not exceeding seven years, to such person or persons, in such place or places, and upon such terms and conditions, and subject to such regulations as to His Majesty shall seem meet, and as shall by any general or special Order of His Majesty in Council be in that behalf directed and appointed; and any indenture of apprenticeship duly made and executed by any person or persons to be for that purpose appointed by any such Order in Council, for any term not exceeding seven years, shall be of the same force and effect as if the party thereby bound as an apprentice had himself or herself when of full age, upon good consideration, duly executed the same.” It leaves no option whatever with the party bound.