Trial of Pedro de Zulueta, jun., on a Charge of Slave Trading, under 5 Geo. IV, cap. 113, on Friday the 27th, Saturday the 28th, and Monday the 30th of October, 1843, at the Central Criminal Court, Old Bailey, London / A Full Report from the Short-hand Notes of W. B. Gurney, Esq.

by Pedro de Zulueta; William Brodie Gurney

7165. Chairman.] Have Messrs. Zulueta direct intercourse with the coast of Africa themselves, as merchants, or are they only agents?—I have never met a vessel belonging to Messrs. Zulueta & Co. on the coast of Africa.

7166. They are shipping agents in England, obeying orders given them by their correspondents abroad?—I have never known Zulueta & Co. to be employed in any mercantile transactions on the coast of Africa, except with regard to Spanish slave merchants. I have never seen their names in any vessels that I have boarded, engaged in innocent traffic.

7167. Do you conceive that a shipping agent is bound to make himself acquainted with the pursuits of the parties to whom he ships lawful goods?—I think, as far as regards the slave trade on the coast of Africa, it is the duty of a merchant residing in England, to be cautious that he does not do any thing that will at all be acting contrary to the Act of Parliament for the Abolition of the Slave Trade.

7168. Supposing he had consigned goods to the Bight of Benin, for instance, where many of the greatest dealers in produce have been till lately dealers in slaves; can you conceive that he would have been engaging in unlawful traffic in complying with such orders from his correspondent?—If the goods were to be consigned to a port where innocent traffic was carried on, and to merchants who carried on that traffic as well as the slave trade, of course it would admit of great doubt to what purpose those goods would be applied; but, in this case, the goods being consigned to those three people at the Gallinas, a port where no trade but the slave trade has been carried on for a considerable number of years, I think it materially alters the position of the parties in the shipping of the goods.

7169. Then the innocence or otherwise of the transaction depends, in your opinion, upon the knowledge on the part of the shipping agent in England of the exclusively slave-dealing character, of the trade carried on from any point of the coast of Africa to which the goods may be consigned?—I think not exactly.

7170. Supposing the Gallinas had carried on a trade to the extent of 100 pieces of ivory annually, would that have been an innocent transaction which you now consider to have been a culpable one?—I think it might admit of a doubt whether there was a possibility of the goods shipped being employed in innocent traffic; but I think, being shipped to a place like the Gallinas, there can be no doubt whatever to what purpose the goods would be applied.

7171. Is not the nature of the traffic carried on from different points of the coast of Africa, shifting and varying from time to time; at one time exclusively in slave dealing, at other times partly in slave dealing and partly in produce; and at other times wholly in produce; according as the efforts of the English merchants have prevailed more or less. Would it not, therefore, according to this view, require constant reports to the shipper in England of the state for the year of the different points of trade on the coast of Africa, to enable him to know whether he could with safety carry on trade with any one place?—I think the slave trade has been at the point to which the vessel in question was consigned to deliver her cargo, so fully established, that it can admit of no doubt whatever as to the trade in which that vessel was employed. But it may happen, at many places on the coast, that a doubt might exist. For instance, if a merchant were established on the coast, carrying on the joint traffic of exchange of the produce of the country as well as the slave trade, it certainly would admit of a doubt. But I think it is the business of the merchant residing in England to make himself acquainted with the character of the persons on the coast of Africa to whom he makes consignments, especially seeing the attempts that are making and have been made for the suppression of the slave trade.

7172. You observe that the case in question is not the case of a merchant carrying on a direct trade with a slave dealer, but a merchant obeying the orders of his correspondent, to make consignments merely as his shipping agent?—I think myself it depends in a great measure upon the place to which the cargo is to be delivered. I think at New Cestos, for example, there might be a doubt to what trade the cargo would be applied; but there are many cases which will not admit of a doubt. Now if a merchant has been in the habit of acting as agent to a foreign house for a length of time, I think he must somehow acquire a knowledge of the trade which this foreign merchant is embarked in. I think it becomes the duty of the merchant to endeavour to make some inquiry, because the Act of Parliament is very decisive; it says, “Or in any other manner to engage or contract to engage directly or indirectly therein as a partner, agent or otherwise, or to ship, tranship, lade, receive or put on board, or to contract for the shipping, transhipping, lading, receiving or putting on board of any ship, vessel or boat, money, goods or effects to be employed in accomplishing any of the objects or the contracts in relation to the objects, which objects and contracts have hereinbefore been declared unlawful.” The law is very decisive.

7173. Mr. Forster.] What are the objects and contracts which have been previously declared unlawful?—“For any persons to deal or trade in, purchase, sell, barter, or transfer, or to contract for the dealing or trading in, purchase, sale, barter, or transfer of slaves or persons intended to be dealt with as slaves.”

7174. Do you consider the lawful shipping of goods at Liverpool a dealing in slaves?—A lawful shipment of goods cannot be unlawful.