"I was surprised at receiving this letter; but I was not satisfied with it: it sharpened my appetite to get more. I returned to the Palace of the Propaganda to give thanks for it, and then asked for a special letter to the Prelates of Ireland. I do not here enter into details about this: I intend, if permitted, explaining all which regards this subject in some letters addressed especially to the Irish people, in the Tablet. I mention it here only to quote from this second letter the words in which is explained more particularly the idea which was formed at the Propaganda of the object which they were recommending. They call it 'Opus quod Reverendus Pater Ignatius promovere satagit, ut nempe Catholici pro Acatholicorum, praesertim Angliae, conversione veluti agmine facto, ferventiori jugiter ratione preces fundant ....' which I thus translate: 'The object which the Rev. Father Ignatius is engaged in promoting, namely, that Catholics should, as it were, form themselves into an army set in array, and with continually increasing fervour pour forth prayers for the conversion of non-Catholics, but especially of England." Now, I do not know how these documents may strike others; but it seems to me that if, after having taken a journey to Rome on purpose to plead my cause there, and after having received letters like these in answer to my appeals, I was just now to relax in my zeal to promote prayers and good works for the conversion of Protestants, but especially of England, this would be not falling into the views of the Holy See, as some seem to think it would, but rather showing indifference and almost contempt for them, and repaying with ingratitude the great favours which I have received. I must reserve to another letter some account of my interviews with his Holiness in person.
"I am, Sir, your faithful servant in Jesus Christ,
"Ignatius Of St. Paul, Passionist."
Here is the account of the audiences he had with the Pope on the subject of prayers for the conversion of England. It is taken from his letters to the Catholic Standard:—
Audiences With Pope Pius IX.
I beg to give an account of what passed upon the subject of the conversion of England in the audiences I was allowed by the Holy Father. They were three. The first was on September 16, 1851, three days after my arrival in Rome; the second, December 23; the third, January 30, 1852, the day before I left Rome. It was on my return home in the evening after that last audience that I met Mgr. Vespasiani, the prelate whom I have before named as one of the Minutanti of the Propaganda, the first person in office at Rome who gave full and attentive consideration to my proposals. This was on the 14th of October, 1851. Full of satisfaction as I was, I expressed to him anew my gratitude for that favour, adding that now I was leaving Rome, I felt as if I had nothing more to ask. All was gained. Such, indeed, were my feelings then. He kindly accepted my acknowledgments, and seemed to sympathize in my satisfaction, but looked incredulous as to my having nothing more to ask, and with a smile, said something to this effect, "You will want plenty more; and, when you desire, you will command our services." I suppose he was right. My feeling was then, and I conceive it was well grounded, that, as far as regarded the mind of his Holiness, I had gained all, on the subject which most engaged me, and which I am now pursuing; and I felt as if in having reached this point all was done. So, I trust, it will prove in time; but I see plainly enough there is work to be done before the mind of the Holy Father will be carried out; others must be moved to correspond with it. I must explain myself by stating facts. In my first two audiences, I think I may say that the principle was approved by his Holiness, that Catholics might be moved all through the world to engage in the enterprise of converting England; but that he must not be represented as caring for England exclusively, as he was father to all. There was no objection here expressed to my being specially interested for my own country. On the contrary, the Pope agreed to, and approved of, my continuing to urge the Roman people to join in this cause, as well as pursuing the same object in Austria, whither I told him I was going, and elsewhere. In my second audience I said to him: "Holy Father, may I repeat truly here what I am saying outside? I am openly stirring the people of Rome to a third conquest of England. Rome conquered England once, under Julius Caesar, by the material sword. Rome conquered England a second time, more gloriously, under St. Gregory I., by the Word of God. I am calling on Rome to undertake this conquest again, under Pius IX., when it will be a vastly more important one than heretofore, and by means more glorious and more divine, because referring more purely the glory to God, being chiefly holy prayer." The Pope did not speak in answer to this appeal; but, if I rightly judged, his manner and looks expressed his acceptance and approval of the idea better than words could have done. However, though I might say I had succeeded as well as I could have expected in these first two audiences, the second of which I looked upon as final, as in it I had taken my leave of his Holiness, there was yet something wanting. I was preparing to leave Rome not quite satisfied, though I knew not how to better my position. I will relate how the happy conclusion was brought round. My departure was unexpectedly delayed in order that I might assist at a mission to be given by our fathers, in the town of Marino, on the Alban mountains, which was in the diocese of the Cardinal-Vicar, at whose request the mission was given. I went to the mission, not so much to work, as to see, and hear, and learn for myself; but the crowd of penitents was such, that during the last week of it I gave myself entirely to the confessions; and having no part in the preaching, I never did such a week's work at confessions as that. I returned to Rome alone on January 18, to prepare for my departure, leaving the other Fathers to begin a second mission at Albano; and it struck me my week's work for the Cardinal-Vicar need not be altogether its own reward. I visited him the next day, as to make a report of the mission, which was highly satisfactory. I then said, "I have done a heavy week's work for your Eminence, and I come to claim il mio stipendio (my pay)." "And what," said he, "is that?" "A few minutes' patience," I replied, "to hear me again on the cause of England. I want Rome to be effectually moved." "But," said he again, "what can we do? I have distributed your papers. I will recommend it again; what more do you want? Perhaps the Pope could suggest something; go to him again." I answered, "I have had my final audience, and received his last blessing. Can I go again?" "Oh, yes. Go; you may use my name." I went straight to the Vatican, and Monsignor Talbot placed me, according to custom, in a saloon, through which the Pope was to pass at three o'clock, to take his daily drive. I told his Holiness what had brought me again before him. I had received recommendations to all the world, but I was particularly intent on moving Rome. "Surely," he said, "that is the most important place. Write me a memorial, and we will consult over it." I lost no time in doing so. In it I dwelt on two objects; first, I entreated the Holy Father to take such measures as he might in his wisdom think fit, to move all Christendom to undertake the recovery of the nations which had been lost to the Church, and specially England. And with regard to Rome, I stated the case thus. I had received from the congregations through which his Holiness intimates his pleasure to the whole Church, an earnest recommendation to all Bishops to support me to the utmost of their power in my enterprise. Was it to be conceived, I asked, that the Bishop of the first See was alone excluded from this recommendation? Surely not; and therefore in the name of his Holiness, as head of the Universal Church, I appealed to his Holiness as Bishop of Rome, and entreated that he would give an example to all other Bishops, how a mandate of the Holy See ought to be obeyed. It was not for me to offer directions how this should be done; but if I were to make a suggestion, I would ask that a Prelate should be named, with an authority to engage the help of other zealous ecclesiastics, and with them to instruct the people of Rome in the importance and beauty of the work, and to engage them in it with persevering zeal. I took this memorial to the Cardinal-Vicar, who read through the latter part with me, and said, with an air of satisfaction, "That will do; that will do very well"—promising to present it to the Pope. I begged him to say besides, that the Prelate I had in my mind was Monsignor Talbot. This was on January 23. On the 26th, Monsignor Barnabò told me that all had been favourably received. I thought I had nothing to do but to arrange with Monsignor Talbot what he might do, and for this purpose I went on the 30th of January to see him, accompanied by one of our Fathers. I had bid him farewell, when my companion said, "May we see the Pope?" I was rather annoyed at this: the sight of the Pope intended was merely to be once more placed in his way as he would pass one of the saloons: and I felt it would be unreasonable and intrusive for me to be seen there again; but I thought it would be selfish to disappoint my companion, who had sacrificed so much of his time to gratify me, and I said nothing. We were, therefore, taken into the saloon, as it was just the time for the Pope's drive. There, however, we waited one quarter, two quarters, three quarters of an hour. I concluded, what was the case, that the Pope was not going out, and expected presently to be told to go away. Instead of this Monsignor Talbot came and beckoned us into the Pope's private room, where he was sitting in the window recess perfectly at his ease, and received us with these words addressed to me:—"Well, Father Ignatius, we have done something now." "Indeed, Holy Father," said I, "this is true. I see this work now in the way to become the most favoured of all, entrusted, as it is, to a Prelate who has his time so disposed that one week he is free to work, and the other he returns to attendance on your Holiness to make his reports, and receive new instructions." "Not only so," replied the Pope, "there are four of them. He has but one week entirely engaged with me; besides the one out of four wholly free, he has but two or three hours every day on duty in the other two. But remember, I will not have England alone thought of." "Holy Father," I said, "this alteration has been made. The undertaking is for all separated nations; England being proposed only as the most important point of attack, on several accounts. I beg, however, to ask that the term heretics may not be used as the general designation of those we pray for. I do not confess to wilful heresy before my conversion. I do not confess for this sin for my countrymen at large." "Ah! what say you?" answered the Pope; then he reflected for a moment and graciously bowed. In accordance with this request, in my letter from the Propaganda the term is not haereticorum, but acatholicorum praesertim Angliae. I went on: "Holy Father, I ask one more favour. Cardinal Fornari has agreed, if he is named by your Holiness, to accept the charge of Protector to this work." "What need of this?" answered the Pope; "I have desired the Cardinal-Vicar to recommend the work to Rome, and Cardinal Fornari is a Roman. Is that not enough?" "Holy Father," I replied, "what is requested is, that he should be empowered to act in it as Cardinal." After another pause his Holiness again graciously bowed and said: "Well, be it so." Thus the discourse on this subject terminated: and, if I have intelligibly explained myself, will it not be allowed that I had reason to go home satisfied, in the reflection that the work of the conversion of Protestants, but chiefly England, was now erected—as far as regarded the part which the holy Father had to take in it—into what may be almost called a congregation in the Holy City, to be composed of prelates and ecclesiastics, of whom the first active member was among his Holiness's domestic attendants; and the Cardinal Protector was one of the most distinguished of the Sacred College, who in his first conversation with me declared his most lively interest in England, as having himself, as Professor in the Roman Seminary, directed the studies in Theology of Cardinal Wiseman, and four others, now Bishops in England, besides two deceased. I must close this long letter with one more fact, which came to my knowledge, bringing home to me the consoling conviction, how deeply the heart of our Holy Father is interested in the great work. When I was in Paris, this cause of England was ardently taken up by a gentleman noted for his Catholic zeal, a distinguished merchant in Havre. On my leaving Paris he begged me to give him a letter of credentials, that, in his mercantile travels, he might in my name interest Bishops and other leading personages in our favour. In November last he enclosed me a letter he had received from the Vicar-General of Nantes, to whom he had applied to recommend this object to his Bishop. It was in these terms: "I will gladly perform your commission, and I have no doubt his Lordship will comply with your wish; the more so that, returning from Rome a few days back, I have brought to him a message to the same effect from his Holiness. In my first audience the Pope said to me: 'Tell the Bishop of Nantes, from me, that I desire he will pray, and cause others to pray, a great deal for England. The position of the Church in that kingdom interests me deeply; I am always thinking of it.' In my second audience the Holy Father repeated to me the same words, and in a tone of feeling such as I can never forget. I am convinced this subject occupies his mind continually." Is it, now, to be supposed that the Holy Father is averse to English and Irish Catholics praying especially for England, and praying much for it? Is it not, on the contrary, to be inferred from these statements, and those of my last two letters, that it would console his heart to see them devotedly engaged in the work? I think this is the conclusion to which we shall all arrive, and that this happy result may in due time—and why not soon?—be abundantly realized.
He says in another letter:—
"I begin with repeating again the words of St. Jerome to Pope Damasus: 'He who gathereth not with thee scattereth,' and I renew my declaration that if I thought that by exerting myself to move the Catholics of England and Ireland, and, in general, of all the world, to the enterprise of gaining England, my country, back to the faith of our fathers, I was not working in accordance with the mind of his Holiness, I should not dare to proceed. Will my dear Catholic brethren meet me with the assurance that if it appears by facts that this enterprise is according to his mind, they will heartily devote themselves to the cause and help us?
"It seems to me still, as it always did, impossible to conceive how these efforts, carried on as they are proposed to be, in perfect accordance with devoted loyalty to the State, and in a spirit of ardent charity towards our fellow-countrymen, should not be gratifying to the Church of God and to its Head. Many times have I repeated in sermons to the Irish people during the days of the troubles of his Holiness: 'You have joined with noble generosity in assisting the Holy Father by subscriptions of money, you have entered fervently into prayer for him, will you not do one thing more to console him? Let him hear that you are determined that my country, with its great resources and power, shall once more be his.' This was, I think, a reasonable natural suggestion.
"It was, accordingly, a surprise to me, and at the same time a pain, when I was told by one, about the beginning of the year 1851, that his Holiness was become almost averse to our efforts in behalf of England; as on being applied to for some new indulgence for certain prayers for England, he would not grant the petition unless Italy was comprehended in the intention of the prayers. Another said positively that the Pope would give no more indulgences for prayers for England. These things were said, as so many more things have been said, apparently in a half-joking tone, to mortify me in what is known to be a tender point. "Well, everything may turn to account for good, if we pay attention. These remarks helped to stimulate me to ascertain perfectly what the truth of the case is, and they now give me occasion to explain publicly some of the facts on which the matter has to be judged.
"In May, 1850, a student of the English College at Rome, just ordained, went to receive the Pope's blessing before his return to England. He presented a crucifix to his Holiness, and begged for an indulgence of 300 days for whoever kissed this crucifix, and said a Hail Mary for the conversion of England. The Pope sat down and wrote with his own hand at the foot of the petition, that he granted 300 days' indulgence for those who should offer a devout prayer, as for instance a Hail Mary, for the conversion of England. When this was reported to me, as there appeared some kind of ambiguity in one expression of the Pope's writing, I wrote to Monsignor Talbot, begging that he would ascertain from his Holiness whether we were right in interpreting the sentence as granting the indulgence generally without any reference to the crucifix. The answer was, 'Yes.' Evidently then, at this time, the Pope was disposed to grant more in favour of England than he was asked. How are we to account for the seeming alteration in his dispositions? One way is to suppose that the Pope had ceased to wish prayers to be made for England. Monsignor Talbot, when I saw him at Rome in September, 1851, gave me another reason. 'The Pope,' said he, 'is determined he will give no more indulgences for England. People seem not to care for them. No account is made of them. Let them first show they value what they have.' No authority, on such a point, could be preferable to that of Monsignor Talbot, who spends his life in personal attendance on his Holiness; and according to him, the Pope did, in a tone of some displeasure, refuse one or two such requests, the displeasure was not because people prayed too much for England, but because they did not pray enough, and on this account, did not deserve any more encouragement. This view I maintain with the more confidence, inasmuch as after that displeasure had been expressed, a petition was made on March 9, 1851, by some English ladies in Rome for a plenary indulgence to be gained once a month by those who should daily pray for the conversion of England: it was granted as stated in our admission papers. I infer from this, that if only the Holy Father perceived that the Catholics of England were really in earnest in the cause, there would be no bounds to the liberality with which he would encourage them; but no one likes to go on giving favours to persons who seem not to value them; and he who has the dispensing of the favours of Almighty God from the treasuries of the Church, must not consent to their being undervalued.
"But now, it will be asked, what encouragement did I myself receive from his Holiness during the four months and a half that I spent in Rome, as a kind of representative of this cause of the conversion of England? I need not say that, in going to Rome, I was desirous to move all hearts there to an enthusiastic devotion to this enterprise, as I had endeavoured to do in Ireland, in France, in Belgium, and Germany. I fain would not have lost an occasion of preaching in churches, addressing religious communities, the children of schools, wherever I could find them assembled. I did not expect, however, to be able at once to run such a career in Rome, as in ordinary towns, and I was greatly satisfied with what was allowed me. Whatever difficulty or check I might have met with, it came not from his Holiness. The proper authority to apply to in this case was the Cardinal-Vicar; that is, he who administers the very diocese of Rome as the Pope's Vicar-General. He at once agreed to my visiting convents and schools, and exhorting them to the great work; but for preaching in churches, there must be, he said, express sanction from the Pope. The Holy Father was consequently consulted by Monsignor Talbot, and answered that he had no objection, but left it to me to make arrangements with the rectors of the churches. The number of monasteries and schools in which I made my allocutions on the conversion of England, is past my remembrance. Almost day by day, for about two months of my time, this was my leading pursuit. I wish it to be clearly understood that all this time I spoke all that was in my mind with as complete freedom from reserve as I am known to exercise here. To the authorities in Rome, who are not wanting in vigilance, all must have been known; and one word from them of objection to the subject, or to my manner of treating it, spoken to my superiors, would have at once stopped me. The number of churches in which I spoke was not so great. I used generally to ask leave myself to address convents and schools. I saw that it would not be becoming to offer myself thus to speak in churches at Rome; but among others I may mention particularly, that I preached by invitation, in English, in French, and in Italian, in those of the large and frequented churches S. Andrea della Valle, S. Luigi de' Francesi, and S. Andrea della Fratte; and the Pope himself spoke to me of this last discourse in a tone of satisfaction. He would not have been opposed, as far as could be observed, if, instead of three churches, I could have made up a list of three hundred.
"Another means I took for moving the Roman people was, by the papers printed for me by the Propaganda, of which I spoke in my last letter. The first of these was thus headed:—'Association of Prayers and Good Works for the Conversion of those who are separated from the Holy Catholic Church, but especially of England.' Before this writing was printed, I gave a copy of it to Monsignor Talbot, to lay before the Pope. He returned it to me, with this addition in his own hand:—