After a short silence, lord CHOLMONDELEY spoke to this effect:—My lords, the observations which, though sufficiently explained and enforced in the late debate, the noble lord has been pleased to repeat on this occasion, are in themselves, indeed, sufficiently pertinent, and have been urged by his lordship with uncommon spirit and elegance; but he ought to have reflected, that general declamations are improper in a committee, where the particular clauses of the bill are to be separately considered.
I propose, therefore, that instead of wasting that time, of which the exigencies of the publick now require an uncommon frugality, in useless rhetorick, and untimely vehemence, we should proceed to examine in order the distinct paragraphs of this bill, by which it may more easily appear, whether it ought to be rejected or approved.
It cannot, indeed, be proposed, that any of the clauses shall be amended in this committee; for the claims of the commons, and the obstinacy with which they have always adhered to them, on whatever they are founded, is well known. I am old enough to remember the animosities which have arisen between the two houses, from attempts to adjust this part of their pretensions; animosities which at this time may be not only dangerous to ourselves, but fatal to a great part of mankind, and which it ought, therefore, to be our utmost care not to excite.
Lord AYLESFORD:—My lords, though the consideration of the distinct paragraphs of the bill be, as the noble lord has very justly observed, the proper business of the committee; yet since, as he has likewise observed, the present state of our affairs requires unusual expedition, I think we may very properly spare ourselves the trouble of considering paragraphs which we cannot amend; and which are in themselves so clear and so obvious, that they may be understood in their full extent upon a cursory perusal.
But, my lords, though I think it not proper to follow our usual method of considering the paragraphs distinctly, which can only drive the bill forward towards the third reading, as it has already been forced into the committee; yet I think it not necessary to irritate the other house, alarm our allies, or encourage our enemies, by rejecting that bill by which it is intended that the supplies shall be raised. There is an easy and moderate method, by which the same end may be attained without any disturbance of the publick, any impediment of the schemes of the government, or any just offence to the commons.
Instead of passing or rejecting this bill, of which the first is absolutely criminal, and the second perhaps improper, let us only delay it, by which we shall give the commons time to reflect upon it, to reexamine it, and discover, what they, perhaps, have not hitherto suspected, its destructive tendency. Nor can it be doubted, but the observations which will arise from the necessity of inquiring into the reasons of our conduct, will soon induce them to form another bill, not liable to the same objections; I, therefore, second the noble lord's motion to resume the house.
Lord ISLAY:—My lords, if we consider the pretensions of the commons, and the stubbornness with which they have hitherto adhered to them, we shall easily find the impropriety of the noble lord's motion, and foresee the inefficacy of the methods which he so warmly recommends.
The alarm which he supposes us to give the commons by postponing the bill before us, the observations which they will make upon our conduct, the new informations which they will receive, and the new bill which they will send, are merely imaginary. They will not consider themselves as concerned in the delay or expedition of our procedure, but will suppose us to act upon our own reasons, which it is not necessary for them to examine, and will by no means send another bill for supplies, till they are informed that this is rejected.
Thus, my lords, we shall only retard the supplies, without altering, or being able to alter, the method of raising them; and at last pass that bill, without examination, which we now neglect to examine, lest we should pass it; or, perhaps, irritate the commons by the novelty of our conduct, which, if they should resolve to consider it, they will probably consider only to censure.
Lord AYLESPORD:—My lords, I am no stranger to the claims of the commons to the sole and independent right of forming money bills, nor to the heat with which that claim has been asserted, or the firmness with which it has always been maintained in late senates. Nor am I ignorant, that by contesting this claim, we have sometimes excited disputes, which nothing but a prorogation of the senate could appease.