Jacques replied: “O no my lady, believe; if it were permitted among us, to resist the evil with the carnal sword, know, that no seven men should have brought me here, and I should have kept out of your hands, for there would have been power to do it.”
Lady. “I know there are such sects, who are very wicked and kill the people, and also have their goods and wives in common.”
Jacques. “O no, my lady, we are quite unjustly charged with these wicked things, and occasion is thereby sought, to persecute us; but we must suffer and endure all this with patience.” Matt. 5:11; Acts 21:38; 2 Tim. 2:3.
Lady. “Was it not your people, who with great dishonor took up arms against the government at Amsterdam and Muenster?”
Jacques. “O no, my lady; for those people erred greatly; but we regard it as a doctrine of the devil, to seek to resist the authorities with the external sword and violence, and would much rather suffer persecution and death from them, together with everything that is inflicted upon us.” Rom. 13:1; 1 Pet. 2:13; Tit. 3:1.
Lady. “Nevertheless, it is imputed to you, and they who make uproar do very wrong; however, I believe what you say concerning it.”
Jacques. “My lady, do we not read much of this character, how wicked men spoke evil of the apostles themselves, and the whole band of Christians, and, by many wicked things, sought to incite the authorities to vengeance against them, though it was all falsehood?” Acts 28:22; 24:5; Luke 2:34.
Lady. “Do you not believe that all are damned who are not baptized according to your way?”
Jacques. “O no, my lady, for judgment with regard to this belongs to God alone, who shall reward every one according to his works, as is clearly evident in many places of the holy Scriptures. Moreover, the water has not power to cleanse us from sin, as Peter says, but is merely a sign of all obedience.” 1 Peter 3:21; Matt. 3:15.
Lady. “When you are baptized, tell me, can you still sin?”