Jac. “My lord, I entreat you not to say such words; for it would be difficult and hard for you to prove that they are such as you assert them to be. And, again: They have not deceived, but have clearly taught the word of God. And I do not believe that those who have believed in the word of God, will go into perdition; but the Lord shall judge all things well.”
Com. “I will not dispute; for I myself receive instruction from those that are taught in the holy church. But I well know the character of you people, and of your doctrine: had you but the power, you should gladly cut our throats, which, as has been seen, you people have done at Munster, Amsterdam, and other places.”
Jac. “O my lord, don’t say such words against your own conscience; for I am persuaded that you know much better, since you have been in the council here for twenty years, as you say (this he had told me before); hence it seems to me that you know us better; for if we had such wicked hearts as to intend murdering people, we should not thus deliver ourselves into your hands; for were we only to speak against our conscience, and conceal the truth from you, you would have no power over us, since you can find no one that can accuse us with truth of having wronged or injured any one.”
Com. “Whence then originate so many sects and heresies? whence springs so much uproar and mutiny?”
Jac. “As far as the sects and heresies that are in the world are concerned; as those of Munster or Amsterdam, or elsewhere, we have in no manner fellowship or part with their works, nor with their doctrines, but we regard them as doctrines of devils. All these things cannot prevent the truth from being truth, and the Christians from being true Christians, any more than could in the days of the apostles all the sects and heresies that were round about them, and had some semblance of the word of God.”
After these and many other words which we had together, he began to get milder in his manner, and said to me: “You must not study so high, but suffer yourself to be instructed by those who are more learned and wise than you, and you must believe in the word of God.”
Jac. “O my lord, how should I not believe in the word of God? For this same word I am imprisoned here, and stand now before you, to give answer concerning it.”
Com. “You are not imprisoned for the word of God, but for your evil deeds.”
Jac. “My lord, have you heard of any one complaining that I wronged or injured him in any way?”
Com. “No; I have not heard that any complaint has been made against you.”