Mr. O’Connell. As far as I was concerned, I didn’t know he was a member of the Communist Party and many of these people I don’t even know that you read today as teachers at that school, I don’t even know.
I do know Gundlach, who was a professor at the University of Washington. Whether he is a Communist or not, I don’t know, but——
Mr. Tavenner. You are not willing to accept the testimony of a Communist Party functionary, the No. 2 person in the Communist Party in the State of Washington, for that?
Mr. O’Connell. Well, of course, I haven’t had an opportunity to read her testimony. Did she say Gundlach was a Communist? The reason I feel so sure Gundlach isn’t a Communist is when the State un-American activities committee was conducting its investigations out there——
Mr. Tavenner. I read to you this morning and read into the record the identification of Gundlach as a member of the Communist Party, according to the testimony given this committee and my recollection is that it was Barbara Hartle.
At any rate, didn’t you know that and weren’t you aware of the fact that he was ousted from the university as a professor because of his Communist Party membership?
Mr. O’Connell. If I remember correctly, and it is a long time ago, Gundlach was actually ousted, if I remember correctly, because President Allen, who was at the university at the time, didn’t think he was a Communist but thought that his conduct in connection with the investigation that was carried on by the State un-American activities committee, was such that he didn’t think he was a fit and proper person to be a teacher at the university. That is my recollection of it.
The reason I wonder about Gundlach is that he took an entirely different course, as I remember, before the State un-American activities committee out there than certain others who were there later, but if Barbara Hartle says he is and says he was, she may be right. I don’t know. All I am doing is conjecturing on the basis of——
Mr. Tavenner. As a matter of fact, Mr. O’Connell, from your vast experience and your intelligence, didn’t you form the opinion that the Pacific Northwest Labor School was a training school for the Communist Party?
Mr. O’Connell. No; I particularly didn’t get that idea because I know some excellent people who were connected with the school. One is Frank Carlson, who was in the streetcarmen’s union out there who was an outstanding labor leader who certainly wasn’t a Communist.