Mr. Jackson observed that he had seconded the motion of the gentleman from South Carolina, because he thought there was an obvious difference in the two modes of expression. He then entered into a discussion of the subject generally; and enlarged on the injurious consequences which would result to the Southern States particularly by enhancing the duties on foreign bottoms. He said, that the tonnage was at present so high as to prevent foreigners from becoming our carriers; several instances of this had been mentioned to him from good authority; and while the American shipping was incompetent to the object, and he called on gentlemen to show that it was, the exclusion of foreign ships from our ports must be ruinous to South Carolina and Georgia; therefore, he hoped the amendment would take place.
Mr. Sherman said, that the words in the report appeared to him less exceptionable than those in the proposed amendment, even on the principle supported by the gentleman in favor of the amendment. In the report it was only said, we should consider what means, &c., but the amendment declared we should take effectual measures. The words in the report only binding us to consider—those in the amendment obliging us to act. He thought the answer should be general, and was therefore against the amendment.
Mr. Smith (of South Carolina) observed, that the member last up had confined his observation to the first words in the paragraph objected to. If he will take the trouble of reading a little further, he will see, that as the report stands, we give it as our opinion, that foreign bottoms ought to be excluded, which would be severely felt by the States of South Carolina and Georgia. We cannot wholly depend upon our own vessels for the exportation of our produce; they are not sufficiently numerous, nor will they be for many years; therefore, let us not at this time, in a hasty manner, declare, that all articles exported shall be carried in our own bottoms. To settle this important question, Mr. S. thought that some time should be given to reflect, and a day fixed for discussion; in the mean time, he thought it improper at this stage of the session, that the opinion of the House should be given.
Mr. Williamson remarked, that the report did not say that we should have no dependence on foreign bottoms; but that we should not depend altogether upon them for the exportation of our produce. He had no idea of excluding foreign bottoms. He was for making provision in case that resource should fail.
Mr. Jackson.—To show the importance of foreign shipping to the Southern States, and the inadequacy of our own to transport their produce, notwithstanding the low duty on American shipping, Mr. J. read a statement of the tonnage duties paid by each, in the State of Georgia, for the same period; the foreign tonnage amounted to eight thousand two hundred and twenty-seven dollars, the American to six hundred and twenty-nine dollars only. This being the fact, he inquired, what could be done with the Southern produce, in case of the exclusion of foreign bottoms? It must rot in the planter's hands. With respect to the amendment's being as positive as the clause in the report, as had been asserted, if this is the case he could see no objection to its being adopted.
Mr. Tucker said, he thought it improper that in an Address on this occasion, the committee should go into a particular detail on every subject; much less commit their judgment without a previous discussion. The President may have maturely considered the subject during the recess, but the committee cannot be supposed to be prepared for a decision. The thinness of the House was a further objection, in his opinion, to entering into a discussion of the question. He was not pleased with the paragraph in the report, as it seemed to imply that nothing had been done for the encouragement of our own navigation, the reverse of which was fact. The posture of affairs in Europe suggested no stronger reasons for giving further encouragement to our own navigation than what was presented last session; the expediency of the measure is not therefore apparent from any change of circumstances. Though he was dissatisfied with the report, the amendment proposed fell short of his wishes. It did not recognize what had been done for the encouragement of American shipping. He would, therefore, propose a substitute by leave of his colleague; which he did to the following purport: "The encouragement of our own navigation has at all times appeared to us highly important, and has employed a large share of our deliberations; we shall continue to pay due attention to the subject, and consider by what means our commerce and agriculture may be best promoted."
Mr. Smith withdrew his motion to admit Mr. Tucker's.
Mr. Seney said, he could not conceive what ground of apprehension there was in the Address, to lead gentlemen to suppose that the opinion of the House would be committed by its adoption. He thought it couched in the most general and unexceptionable terms. The amendment proposed he did not think essentially variant from the paragraph under consideration; but as the original was well expressed, he saw no reason for expunging the clause; it contained an assertion, the truth of which he supposed would not be controverted. As to the objection against going into a detail of particulars, it was fully justified by precedent in the last Address; the gentleman from South Carolina, he will recollect, was on the committee who framed it; that Address more pointedly committed the House than the present.
Mr. Madison thought proper to take some notice of the objections that had been made to the report. There were two modes of proceeding, which might be adopted in drawing up the answer. The first method was generally to declare, that the House would take into their serious consideration the business recommended to their attention by the President. And this, he observed, would be saying nothing, for, as by the constitution it was the President's duty to communicate what matters he judged of importance, so it was undoubtedly that of the House to pay attention to the objects recommended. The second method was, to enter into a detail of the different points mentioned in the President's Address, and in such cases where there was no doubt as to the propriety of measures being taken, assure him, in the answer, that measures would be adopted; and if any thing doubtful occurred, merely promise that the subject would be attended to. This rule the committee had followed in drawing up their report, and as in the business mentioned in the paragraph now before the House, they did not hesitate to believe some measures necessary, they could see no impropriety in assuring him that the best would be adopted. He added, that as it is clear that a war in Europe would, by depriving us of foreign bottoms to export our produce, injure this country; and as wars were doubtful, it was of the utmost importance that the American navy be put on so respectable a footing as not to need foreign aid for the exportation of her produce. He further observed, that the answer returned last session was more full, and went even to give the President assurances that the House would concur in certain points proposed for their consideration in his address. He concluded by remarking, that the amendment proposed was binding on the House quite as much as the paragraph in the report.
Mr. Smith (of South Carolina) said, it was true those who reported the Address the last session, adverted to particulars; but were cautious in their mode of expression, and adopted ambiguous language to avoid giving an opinion. This would appear by recurring to that Address. The charge of inconsistency on his part was therefore not well founded. Mr. S. read some paragraphs of that Address, and observed that the House was not pledged by the expressions then read; but in the present Address there is an opinion given. It says that we ought not to depend on foreign bottoms, because in case of war we may be deprived of that resource. These declarations originated the objections, and gave rise to the amendment. He proposed, therefore, as gentlemen appear to have no objection to either mode of expression, that they would accommodate for the sake of harmony and unanimity.