Mr. Ames prefaced his remarks on the subject before the committee by some observations on the nature of the charges brought forward. He was happy that they were determinate, and conceived that the defence could be crowded in a nutshell. As to the first charge in the resolution immediately before the committee, he had seen no proof in support of it brought forward. It is founded only on assertion, and he conceived that contra-assertion was sufficient to meet it. No authority, it was said, was given to the Secretary to obtain the loan under the blended authority of both acts. This is not one of the charges included in the resolutions before the committee, and therefore this is not the time to answer it. However, if this were fact, nothing criminal could in consequence be imputed; and, since the purposes of both laws were carried into execution, there could be no ground for saying that either was violated. He said much on the impracticability of the line of conduct which some gentlemen appeared to think ought to have been followed by the Secretary. It was impossible to keep different funds, differently appropriated, so inviolably separate as that one might not be used for the object of the other; all was right, he conceived, provided what was taken was to be replaced. He was also of opinion that the overflowing of one fund could be applied to make up the deficiency of another; and that all that is necessary is to give priority to the appropriation. The money paid in Europe for interest on the loan was said to have been improperly applied, because the fund appropriated for the purpose was here. He insisted that that money was absolutely represented here by an equal sum: and he contended that, though the interest was not paid in the identical coin appropriated, yet, by allowing a very reasonable latitude of expression, it could be said that the interest was paid with the money appropriated, for the applicability of the sums there depended on the existence of the fund here. He next turned to the second charge in the resolution; and, after showing that the natural presumption was, that the Secretary either was instructed or had a discretionary power, he then vindicated his conduct in respect to the drafts of money to this country. He did honor to the motives of the gentlemen who had instituted the inquiry, and concluded an elegant speech, by a contrasted picture of our former and present situation as a country, dwelling upon the importance of preserving harmony, and insisting on the danger of giving rise to suspicions against a highly responsible officer, and of bringing forward charges not to be supported by proof.
Mr. Findlay.—If my hopes respecting the Government have not been equally elevated with those of the gentleman from Massachusetts, (Mr. Ames,) neither are my apprehensions so much depressed with fears. But I hope I am equally anxious for the stability and prosperity of the Government; and though we differ in opinion on this question, yet I am firmly persuaded that the part I take is the best calculated to promote the necessary confidence in Government, and secure the virtue of its administration. As the gentleman, in an elegant discourse, has explained no difficulties, nor adduced any proofs in support of his opinions, I will only add, that I believe the Government to be so well established, and so much beloved by the citizens, as not to be endangered by the House of Representatives' examining how the laws have been obeyed in the application of public money, and giving their opinions upon the result of that examination.
That the Secretary has not reported fully to this House, in due time, is so much within the knowledge of every member, that it is impossible to doubt of the truth of the fact, however we may differ about the propriety of the conduct. To go no further back than last session—besides the references to the Secretary to report upon the Ways and Means, and inform the House what revenues were necessary, on the 20th of February, 1791, a standing order was resolved, directing that he should report to the House, within a few days after the meeting of the next session, "an accurate statement and account of the receipts and expenditures of all the public moneys, in which shall be distinguished the expenditures which fall under each head of appropriation, and that it shall be shown the sums, if any, which remain unexpended," &c. Were not the moneys drawn upon loan, public moneys, and were not those loans appropriated? Undoubtedly, they were strictly so. It is a strange evasion to say, that by these expressions only the current revenue is intended. Arguments must be scarce when this becomes necessary. It requires no refutation.
On the 19th of January last, he was called upon to "lay before the House such information with respect to the finances of the United States, as will enable the Legislature to judge whether any or what additional revenues will be necessary." In consequence of the recommendations of the President, and the wishes of this House, to commence the discharge of the redeemable part of the Funded Debt, a reference was made to the Secretary, requiring him to report a mode for the application of the public money for that purpose; the House being assured, by the gentleman who moved the resolution, that no new tax was intended or necessary. But the Secretary, so far from informing the House how much money he had subject to his discretion, in the bank, in notes, &c., proposed a new and partial tax, as the foundation of a new system of loans. When the memorable bill to authorize another loan of $2,000,000, was before the House, a few weeks ago, we were told by gentlemen on this floor, that there was not time for argument; that the bill must be passed in three or four days, &c.; and when we wanted information, we were told by some of the friends of the bill that it was not convenient to give information there—that we might procure information elsewhere, as they had done. I confess I did not comprehend this method of legislating; but the Secretary has since explained it, in one of his reports, by complaining of the House, because the members did not go to his office and ask information, instead of requiring it to be publicly reported.
Even when this favorite bill for a new loan was before the House, the Secretary did not condescend to inform us that he had, without authority, provided near a million and a half of dollars for that purpose; he did not inform us how obligingly he had drawn bills upon our bankers in Holland, to have the money put in our way. Thus, in order to anticipate the payments due to the bank, he did what he could to induce Congress to break the public faith, by repealing the existing appropriation made for securing the discharge of a debt of justice and gratitude to the French nation. From this and other instances, it appears, that however high the Secretary's regard for public credit may be, there are other considerations which have obtained a higher degree of his attention than obedience to the laws. The gentleman from Virginia (Mr. Madison) has so clearly explained the nature of that discretion with which the Secretary is vested, and so fully proved that there was no necessity to justify a departure from the appropriations made by law, that it is not necessary for me to explain further on this head. However, I cannot help remarking, that the discretionary powers were pretty freely exercised. The drawing of bills began early indeed, and was continued to a recent period. The times of drawing fortunately corresponded with the necessities of the bank, and the power of employing agents was pretty freely used. The same agents were frequently both the sellers and the purchasers of the bills. Perhaps this was necessary: no doubt it was convenient. Probably it was safe; but who can say it will be always so.
I have not said so much to prove the truth of the facts expressed in the resolution, for of this there can be no doubt—it is as clear as the sun, shining in daylight,—but, in order to prove the propriety of this committee expressing its disapprobation of a conduct so unjustifiable. That information was withheld unduly, is evident, from the lateness of this discussion; that it was obtained with difficulty, is evident, from the numerous applications we were obliged to make in order to obtain it.
The House then adjourned until seven o'clock post meridian.
Evening Session—7 P.M.
An engrossed bill making certain appropriations therein mentioned was read the third time, and passed.
The bill sent from the Senate entitled "An act providing for the compensation of Ebenezer Storer," was read twice and committed.