He objected to the estimate of the impost of 1793, that was reckoned upon for the current expenses of 1794. A great part of this impost was still due, by bonds. The persons who had given these bonds were, many of them, broke by the British depredations in the West Indies; and, in fact, a large proportion of that impost never would be paid in to the collectors of the revenue.
He was displeased with the way in which some gentlemen had spoken of the national debt. He had no share, for his own part, as a creditor; but a part of his property must go to the discharge of it, and he should cheerfully pay it. He did not agree with those gentlemen who, in the event of a peace, would not wish to replenish the Treasury. It was curious, that the House had now been assembled for nearly six months; and that their chief object had been to discover ways and means for raising public money. A bill for that purpose had been brought in; and just when it was on the point of being passed, we make a sudden and wonderful discovery, that no money is wanted; but that we have an overplus of three millions of dollars. The thing cannot be. The calculations are not founded on truth. He did not believe that members understood the bill. He could demonstrate that there was occasion for a supply of money.
Mr. Madison thought that the arguments on each side of this question might be reduced to a narrow compass. If peace continues, he supposed it likely that the revenue would not fall so far short, as the committee had apprehended. But if there was a war, the expense would much exceed any thing yet thought of. He was for laying aside the subject at present, and if a rupture with England should ensue, he would then recommend, at once, a direct tax, and that these excise acts should be entirely thrown aside. If there was no war, he believed that no new taxes were required; let the matter therefore die, as to the present. He disapproved the principle of the tax, and should, on that account, think himself justified in voting against it.
Mr. Gillon rose, and replied to several gentlemen, who were for the excise on tobacco, snuff, and loaf and lump sugar; and observed, that he had partly obtained his object, by drawing gentlemen forward, with the calculations which had been kept back. But as the gentlemen, after having, by their own account, been three months on this subject, avowed that his request of detailing those large sums came rather unexpected, and that they wished to have more time to make their calculations, he had not much objection to let this bill have a second reading; but he hoped they would be accurate, in proportion to the time taken to preface them. As to the idea of our general taxes not taking place until the first of next March, that had no weight with him; because he knew the Civil List for the year was not all then due, nor would all the sum for military and naval preparations be to be paid down, the day the ore was dug for the guns, nor on the day that the first tree was cut to begin the frigates.
He agreed that a deficiency might arise on the supplies now due, for the terms which the gentlemen had assigned by the plunder of our merchants' property. He was happy to find that gentlemen had not lost sight of the serious applications they had received from that respectable and utile body (the merchants) for redress; and he should take care to remind gentlemen of their own observations, when the requests of the merchants were brought forward, as he was clear something must be done, either by restitution on the debts to be sequestered, a loan for them under the guarantee of the Union, or by prolonging the time to a remote period, of paying the duties that they owed. He was accused of making wonderful discoveries, of making calculations not founded in truth. The latter he denied, for, if there is any untruth in them, it cannot be on his side, but must have arisen from the committee; therefore, to them be the untruth applicable, as he did not make use of a figure but what they placed in their report.
He still retained his opinion, that surplus revenue was dangerous in the hands of any Government. What did they want to do with it? He hoped nothing else but to buy up the national funded debt as cheap as they could, which act was pardonable, only by the intent, he presumed, they must feel of at last doing justice to our late armies. His meaning was, that the profits arising from this speculation should be kept as a sacred deposit out at interest, and that interest to be employed towards paying off the interest due on the principal losses which our brave officers and soldiers had met with, by being obliged to part with their shares of pay at a very inferior value. This you may better pay to patriotism and misfortune than pay to speculators.
Mr. Tracy.—If I have said what is alleged, the language is too indecorous to be used by me to any gentleman on this floor. If any thing of that kind has escaped from me, I am ready to ask the gentleman's pardon. I have the highest respect for his character.
And the question was then put, Shall this bill be rejected? It passed in the negative—yeas 31, nays 56, as follows:
Yeas.—Thomas Blount, Thomas P. Carnes, Gabriel Christie, Thomas Claiborne, Abraham Clark, Isaac Coles, William Findlay, William B. Giles, Alexander Gillon, Andrew Gregg, Daniel Heister, William Lyman, Nathaniel Macon, James Madison, Joseph McDowell, William Montgomery, Andrew Moore, Peter Muhlenberg, Joseph Neville, Anthony New, John Nicholas, Josiah Parker, Francis Preston, Robert Rutherford, Thomas Scott, John Smilie, Thomas Tredwell, Abraham Venable, Francis Walker, Richard Winn, and Joseph Winston.
Nays.—Fisher Ames, James Armstrong, Theodorus Bailey, Abraham Baldwin, John Beatty, Elias Boudinot, Benjamin Bourne, Lambert Cadwalader, David Cobb, Peleg Coffin, Joshua Coit, William J. Dawson, Jonathan Dayton, Henry Dearborn, George Dent, Samuel Dexter, Thomas Fitzsimons, Dwight Foster, Ezekiel Gilbert, James Gillespie, Nicholas Gilman, Henry Glenn, Benjamin Goodhue, James Gordon, Samuel Griffin, William Barry Grove, Thomas Hartley, James Hillhouse, William Hindman, John Hunter, Henry Latimer, Amasa Learned, Richard Bland Lee, Matthew Locke, Francis Malbone, Alexander Mebane, William Vans Murray, Alexander D. Orr, Andrew Pickens, Theodore Sedgwick, John S. Sherburne, Jeremiah Smith, Israel Smith, William Smith, Zephaniah Swift, Silas Talbot, George Thatcher, Uriah Tracy, Jonathan Trumbull, John E. Van Allen, Peter Van Gaasbeck, Peleg Wadsworth, Jeremiah Wadsworth, Artemas Ward, John Watts, and Benjamin Williams.