Mr. McDowell rose to correct what had fallen from Mr. Ames, as to the strength of the Indian nations on the South-western frontier. The Choctaws and Chickasaws are, and always have been, friends to the white people, and ready to fight for them. The Creeks and Cherokees do not, at the most, extend to more than seven or eight thousand men.
Mr. Carnes.—The only use that Continental troops can be of is to defend posts; and it has been found, by the experience of several years, that posts do more mischief than service. They are established at a distance of fifteen or twenty miles from each other. The Indian parties slip in between them; and the frontier settlers, depending on the protection of the regulars, are not, as they otherwise would be, upon their guard against the savages. The consequence is, that they are frequently murdered; while the only service performed by the Continentals is, that when the militia pursue the Indians, they are prevented by the former from crossing what is called the line. That is the whole service which they have performed in Georgia. In short, against the Creeks, they are good for nothing. Mr. C. wished that gentlemen would frankly say, once for all, that the Georgians did not deserve protection, and then the State would know what was to be done. He insisted on it, that, in Georgia, there were improper leanings in favor of the Indians. He referred to some persons in office, whom he specified. He believed sincerely that the Senate imagined themselves to be acting for the best; but they could not be such competent judges as persons on the spot. Within the last seven years, there has not been a single instance of an Indian killed by a white man, unless when the Indians themselves began the quarrel. During the last ten or twelve years, there had been stolen from Georgia, horses to the amount of a hundred thousand dollars. These were often the chief property of poor people, who had nothing else to depend on for supporting their families. Gentlemen say that we have one Indian war already. But if you have two hands, both in the fire at once, will you pull out one before the other? The Creeks are a savage and faithless tribe. Some years ago, a treaty was made with them at New York; and this treaty cost, in presents, sixty-one thousand dollars. Well, before the chiefs got home, a fresh set of murders were committed. A set of commissioners were next sent, and this embassy cost perhaps a hundred and fifty thousand dollars more. Gentlemen might talk as they thought fit about Indians; for his own part, he would not give the life of one white man for those of fifty Indians. The militia had been always successful against them, and the regulars had always been beaten; this showed the futility of the present amendment from the Senate. Of the successes of the militia, he gave some striking instances, where they had defeated three or four times their own number. As an evidence of the improper leaning on behalf of the Indians, Mr. C. adverted to what had just happened in Georgia. A gang of savages stole some horses. Lieutenant Hay, with a party of dragoons, pursued them, and fell into an ambuscade, where Mr. Hay and two men were killed. This was the way that the Creeks kept a peace. Soon after, an Indian, being found in the State, was wounded; and in the correspondence read the other day to the House, it was so stated, as if the white people were to blame. It made every drop of blood in his heart boil, to hear what he heard in this city as to the character and conduct of his constituents. As a Representative of Georgia, he demanded effectual aid for that State. If the House did not choose to grant it, he warned them that the Georgians would take measures for themselves. It was needless to speak of economy, after squandering such vast sums as he had mentioned, in the purchase of treaties that were never kept. He was against the amendment of the Senate.
Mr. Dayton rose to contradict one assertion, which had fallen from the gentleman, viz: that the regulars were always beaten by the Indians. If gentlemen exercised their memories, or attended to historical facts, they would see the contrary. General Sullivan had entered the country of the Six Nations, had defeated them, and destroyed their towns, and since that time they had been looked upon as a subdued people. Mr. D. was himself in the army on that expedition, and a witness to the success of the regulars. He was for the amendment.
The question was put that the House do concur with the Senate in the said amendment, and passed in the negative—yeas 26, nays 42, as follows:
Yeas.—Fisher Ames, David Cobb, Peleg Coffin, Joshua Coit, Jonathan Dayton, George Dent, Thomas Fitzsimons, Dwight Foster, Ezekiel Gilbert, Henry Glenn, James Gordon, William Hindman, Henry Latimer, Amasa Learned, Francis Malbone, William Vans Murray, Theodore Sedgwick, William Smith, Zephaniah Swift, Uriah Tracy, Jonathan Trumbull, John E. Van Allen, Peter Van Gaasbeck, Peleg Wadsworth, Jeremiah Wadsworth, and John Watts.
Nays.—Theodorus Bailey, Abraham Baldwin, John Beatty, Thomas Blount, Thomas P. Carnes, Thomas Claiborne, Isaac Coles, William J. Dawson, Henry Dearborn, William Findlay, William B. Giles, James Gillespie, Alexander Gillon, Nicholas Gilman, Andrew Gregg, Samuel Griffin, William Barry Grove, Daniel Heister, William Lyman, Nathaniel Macon, James Madison, Joseph McDowell, Alexander Mebane, William Montgomery, Andrew Moore, Joseph Neville, John Nicholas, Alexander D. Orr, Josiah Parker, Francis Preston, Robert Rutherford, Thomas Scott, John Smilie, Jeremiah Smith, Thomas Sprigg, Thomas Tredwell, Philip Van Cortlandt, Abraham Venable, Francis Walker, Benjamin Williams, Richard Winn, and Joseph Winston.
Ordered, That the further consideration of the said amendments be put off till to-morrow.
Saturday, June 7.
Mr. Thatcher moved that such members as had received their pay up to Monday next, and then absented themselves, should be ordered next session to return as much as they had received for the days when absent. The motion was ordered to lie on the table.