Abridgment of the Debates of Congress, from 1789 to 1856, Vol. 1 (of 16)

by United States. Congress

Mr. Dayton said, that he should vote against the motion of the Maryland member, for the rising of the committee. He was against the object of this motion. He agreed entirely with the report of the select committee for receiving the south-western member immediately, as he had a right to a seat, founded on an original compact, which gave it to him. He objected to any concurrence of the Senate being asked. As to consulting persons out of doors, the House had a right to call Heads of Departments to give their opinions on any particular subject, if they thought proper. Mr. D. mentioned some cases of this nature, where such an expedient had been used.

Mr. Giles mentioned one reason against the committee rising, which was, that the House had no other business before it. He then read an amendment to the resolution of the select committee, as a middle course, that would embrace the ideas of all parties.

Mr. Dexter repeated some of his former reasons for preferring an act of the Legislature.

The question was called for, and put by the Chairman, Shall the committee now rise, and report progress? It was decided in the negative—yeas 38, nays 39.

The question was then put on the resolution, as given by the committee. Mr. Giles again proposed his amendment. This was, that after the word "debating," in the resolution, there should be added, "upon any question touching the rights and interests of people in the territory of the United States south-west of the Ohio." The object was to narrow the power of the delegate.

Mr. Smilie was for his being admitted to deliberate on every subject, or none at all.

Mr. Giles declared that he was very well pleased with the resolution, as it originally stood. He had only suggested this amendment that he might get the resolution through the House. He therefore withdrew his motion.

Mr. Baldwin did not see that the question was of much importance. When a member was permitted to speak, but forbidden to vote, his situation was, no doubt, infinitely higher than that of strangers in the gallery, that of an advocate allowed to plead at the bar of the House, or that of a printer who came only to take notes; but still it was extremely short of the situation of a member of Congress. This would be more especially the case, if his right of debating was restricted to the affairs of the North-west and South-west Territory. Mr. B. could see nothing in the new constitution that made an exclusion of the delegate from the south-west of the Ohio. This privilege had been solemnly promised to those people, upon three different occasions. When they belonged to the State of South Carolina, they sent a Representative, Mr. Sevier, to Congress; and they separated into a new State, under the promise of this privilege. But now, we have made a discovery, that these laws cannot be put into execution. It is a great pity that we had not made this discovery sooner. Mr. B. rejected all idea of referring this matter to the Senate. When the latter had any question of that kind, that concerned themselves, they would, no doubt, judge for themselves, and that just as properly as the House of Representatives. As to the pay of this gentleman, that might be an after question. He was clear that there at present existed no law which could make out that. The House may hereafter, if they see fit, pass a law respecting it. But, in the mean time, Mr. B. was satisfied that these people had a claim for a delegate, which could not be got rid of by the House.

Mr. Swift thought that it would be better to erect these people into a new State, and then the privilege would be of some real use to them. He was still of opinion that the constitution admits of no such delegate as this person is intended to be. He is a new kind of character, unknown to it. This person is sui generis. If the constitution knows any thing about him, then take him; if not, reject him. As to taking advice from the gallery, Mr. S. seemed to think he had been misunderstood. To admit a person within the bar for the purpose of consulting him, was a quite different thing from permitting the gallery, like this person, to come and take a permanent seat among the members, for the purpose of regularly debating. Mr. S. never meant to debar the House from taking information wherever they could find it.

Mr. Murray was concerned that he found himself obliged to vote against the resolution of the Committee of the Whole. He still hoped that the gentleman would have a seat, but that the Senate would first be consulted.