Mr. Scott was entirely in favor of the amendment. If the resolution passes without the amendment houses will soon be smoking and blood running. He believed that the subject in question was beyond the reach of human wisdom to regulate. He thought that striking out the amendment would only encourage the Indians to come in a body across the line. This they were never afraid of doing. The only thing which they feared was a pursuit, and this was to be effectually prevented by striking out the amendment. Was there ever such a thing heard of before as that, when the savages have carried off a man's wife and children, he must not be at liberty to pursue them? It would be the most frightful thing imaginable for the House to pass a law declaring such a pursuit criminal. Mr. S. could figure a case where the farm of a settler might come close to the Indian line, and the Indian might stand on the other side of the line and shoot him, and his neighbors would not be at liberty to pursue the murderer. Mr. S. said, that in that part of the country where he resided (Washington county) nothing of this kind was to be feared, as the line was at a sufficient distance from the cultivated lands, but there were other places on the frontier of the United States where this might happen. He said that no Christian nation had a right to ask better terms than this amendment offered to the savages. Stay upon your own side of the line and you are safe, but, if you cross over to us, we shall cross over in pursuit of you. This was fair play. If the resolution passed without the amendment, Mr. S. said that the Indians would immediately encamp close on their side of the line, and lie in watch there for whole months together, till they found a safe opportunity of crossing.
Mr. Murray said, he would make a remark or two on the criticism of the gentleman from Georgia, who had felt affected by an expression of his a few days since, when he called some of the people of the frontier "semi-savages." He did so, and he felt the expression not inapplicable. He confined the import of this expression exclusively to those upon the frontier who lead an unstationary life—who press forward into the deeper wilderness, by the new waves of advancing population, and live the life of savages without their virtues. He begged leave to call the gentleman's attention to a declaration of his own, last session, to justify this expression, which he used more to designate a peculiar than a general character of the people in the region to which he applied it. The gentleman said, he did not value the lives of one hundred Indians as much as the life of one white man, or words to that extent. [This was in a debate just before the close of the last session. The words of Mr. Carnes were, "I would not give the life of one white man for that of fifty Indians.">[ Mr. Murray said, he had two points always in his view when the frontier was a subject in that House—protection to the frontier against the hostility of the Indians, and restraint upon the whites to prevent the occasions of war against the savages. He had given every testimony to the first by supporting every measure for their defence; that he represented a district perfectly beyond the danger of the Indians, was proof that he was actuated in his votes for appropriation and force by no other motive than that which belonged to every man there who supported the great principle of Government, that the whole must protect the parts. He wished to see such a system established, combining these two points, as would give complete protection against the Indians, and yet restrain the whites from violating peace. He wished to see the day when the arms of the Government might, without a crime, strike a whole tribe, if that tribe or its members waged war on the frontiers. But, to do this, it was necessary to place our relative situation so as that justice might be secured. He wished to adopt a regulation like the present, to prevent our fellow-citizens from the gratification of private revenge, the source from whence so much blood is shed. In order to justify exemplary punishment on Indian tribes, you must first be in a situation to restrain the whites from doing injustice to them. You must do what all nations have done, when, from the general or local state of civilization, private war disturbs public tranquillity—you must restrain the right of private war, by placing the power of vengeance out of the reach of individuals, and in the hands of Government. Nor did this idea go at all to restrain that inalienable right of resistance against imminent danger, which was sanctioned by the law of nature. The picture drawn by the gentleman from Pennsylvania, (Mr. Scott,) with his accustomed ability and force, was certainly an interesting one—were an encampment of Indians to be heard in the woods near a settlement, after any evidence of hostility, he did not doubt but the neighbors would be perfectly justifiable in changing the scene of blood from the cottage to the camp—if the amendment which actually arms all the passions of revenge with the rights of law, be rejected, you will attain one of the great objects of frontier policy—the ability to restrain the right of private war, from which public war arises as a consequence. The Government will, when this ability to restrain is complete, become responsible for the protection of the whites against the savages. Until that is accomplished, he did not believe Government could, either in justice or policy, expend treasure or use force, when uncertain of the justice of the cause. He therefore hoped that the amendment would be rejected.
Mr. Findlay was for the amendment, and mentioned several examples to prove the cruelty and perfidy of the Indians.
The amendment itself was in these words: "Unless it shall be in immediate pursuit of the Indians who have recently committed hostilities."
Mr. Madison did not think the question explicit; he therefore proposed another, which was to prevent the pursuers from coming within a certain number of miles of an Indian town. He was extremely doubtful whether his amendment or any other would effectually answer the end proposed. He was convinced that no law of any kind would be able to hinder people from crossing the line in pursuit of Indians, who might have carried off their families.
Mr. Harper said, that however little time the House had to spare, and however long the discussion might have been, he could not help trespassing on their patience for a short time to deliver his sentiments, as he thought himself tolerably acquainted with the subject. He expressly denied that the Indians ever committed any murder without previous provocation. The process is shortly this: An Indian crosses the line and steals a horse. And as long as Indians exist they will always steal horses. The man to whom the horse belonged collects as many of his neighbors as he thinks sufficient, pursues the Indian, and, not contented with recovering his horse, he kills the thief. The Indians, who have no such sacred ideas of property, immediately come over the line, and in revenge murder a number of innocent people. Indian murders are not unprovoked. They are not of that stamp. Mr. H. considered the amendment of Mr. Venable as a source of endless confusion. Any man, if it passed, might cross the Indian line as often as he thought proper, and say that he was in pursuit of Indians with prisoners. I undertake, (said he,) if you will give me a hundred dollars, to go to the frontier and get a witness who will come into a Court of Justice and swear that on such a day ten Indians came over the line in arms. Mr. H. said he was personally acquainted with the frontiers. He had a high respect for the inhabitants, there were many very worthy people among them; but likewise many others of a very different kind. This amendment will set open a door to all sorts of fraud and mischief. Mr. H. honored the sentiments of patriotism that gave rise to it, but he could not possibly agree to the propriety of its insertion.
Mr. White, the member from the South-western Territory, said, that he had to complain of the slaughter of near four hundred citizens under the auspices of your Government. He felt himself much affected, and as to the doctrine of Indian killing, only in retaliation, he denied it altogether. The love of blood was hereditary in them. When the gentleman says that with a hundred dollars in his pocket, he can find ten men on the frontiers—[Mr. Harper explained, that he only said he could find a witness.] Well, (said Mr. W.) if the gentleman did not mean a reflection on the frontiers, he meant nothing at all. I know not how well the gentleman may be practised in the arts of subornation, but I myself know of no such man. [Mr. Harper.—I expected the gentleman would confine himself to a decent answer.] Mr. W. proceeded to observe that no man acquainted with the frontiers would have made any such assertion as the gentleman had done. He was likewise extremely surprised at the gentleman from Maryland, for having persisted in affirming that many of the frontier people were semi-savages.
The yeas and nays were now taken on the amendment, which was lost by a majority of 7—yeas 39, nays 46, as follows:
Yeas.—James Armstrong, Theodorus Bailey, Abraham Baldwin, Thomas Blount, Thomas P. Carnes, Gabriel Christie, Thomas Claiborne, William J. Dawson, George Dent, Samuel Dexter, Gabriel Duvall, Benjamin Edwards, William Findlay, Christopher Greenup, William B. Grove, George Hancock, Carter B. Harrison, John Heath, William Irvine, Matthew Locke, William Lyman, Nathaniel Macon, Joseph Mcdowell, Alexander Mebane, William Montgomery, Andrew Moore, Peter Muhlenberg, Joseph Neville, Anthony New, Alexander D. Orr, John Page, Thomas Scott, John Smilie, Thomas Sprigg, Thos. Tredwell, Philip Van Cortlandt, Abraham Venable, Francis Walker, Richard Winn, and Joseph Winston.
Nays.—Fisher Ames, John Beatty, Elias Boudinot, Shearjashub Bourne, Benjamin Bourne, Lambert Cadwalader, David Cobb, Peleg Coffin, Joshua Coit, Henry Dearborn, Thomas Fitzsimons, Dwight Foster, Ezekiel Gilbert, Nicholas Gilman, Henry Glenn, Benjamin Goodhue, James Gordon, Robert Goodloe Harper, James Hillhouse, William Hindman, Samuel Holten, John Hunter, Aaron Kitchell, John Wilkes Kittera, Amasa Learned, James Madison, Francis Malbone, William Vans Murray, Nathaniel Niles, Andrew Pickens, Theodore Sedgwick, John S. Sherburne, Jeremiah Smith, Israel Smith, Wm. Smith, Zephaniah Swift, George Thatcher, Uriah Tracy, Jonathan Trumbull, John E. Van Allen, Peter Van Gaasbeck, Peleg Wadsworth, Jeremiah Wadsworth, John Watts, Benjamin Williams, and Paine Wingate.