This statement showed, Mr. G. said, that these frigates had cost about £2,000 sterling a gun, though the common calculation in Great Britain was only half that sum. If, from building the frigates, they turned to the expense of manning them, the same conclusion would be drawn. They found that the pay of an able-bodied seaman in the British navy had lately been raised from 26s. 6d. to 30s. sterling a month, which was $6 66-2/3; but, by the present law, $15,000 a month were allowed for the pay of the petty officers, midshipmen, seamen, ordinary seamen, and marines, which averaged from 16 to 17 dollars a man.
When he heard gentlemen stating the advantages of the naval strength of Denmark and Sweden to those countries, he could not agree with them altogether, though he agreed they had some weight; but it was well known that the Grand Navy of Portugal had no weight whatever in the scale of the large navies of Europe; it did not even enable her to protect her trade: for, if either France or Great Britain had the superiority in the Mediterranean, she was under their control. He believed Denmark and Sweden had thirty sail of the line each, and he wished gentlemen to calculate how much it would cost us to have such a navy. A fleet of a few vessels would not then be able to afford protection to our trade; and it was wholly out of our power to have a fleet equal to that of Denmark or Sweden.
Mr. Swanwick believed the expense of these frigates had been much greater than any future ones would be. When they were told they had cost £2,000 sterling a gun, it was evident there must have been great extravagance in the expense, as merchant vessels might be built as cheaply in this country as in any other. He supposed the extra expense had been owing to the want of some regular establishment to overlook the business, and because it had been undertaken at a time when other nations were at war, and of course when materials were very high. Sixteen thousand dollars worth of hemp had indeed been burnt by accident at Boston. As to the terms of seamen, though they might at first be high, when the service was known he doubted not they would fall.
Mr. J. Williams said, he had always opposed the establishment of a navy, and was the question now whether or not we should commence a navy he should certainly be against it; but, as the frigates were so far advanced, he thought they ought to finish them, especially when they considered the present critical situation of our affairs; for, if a general peace did not take place in Europe, the war would probably become a maritime war, and we might be involved in it. But he was still of opinion that if we must go into an expensive naval establishment for the protection of our commerce, we had better have none. But, say gentlemen, where will you find revenue? He believed, though we had no armed force, a considerable commerce would still be carried on,[18] and those who declined it would turn their attention to agriculture and manufactures, from which any deficiency of revenue would readily be supplied.
It was true, as had been stated, that they had been called upon from time to time for additional sums to complete these frigates, and he knew not when these calls would end.
Mr. Giles was obliged to the gentleman last up for his speech against the present bill, though he meant to vote for it; he would rather, however, that he had spoken in favor, and voted against the bill. Mr. G. said he should vote against the passing of the bill, and for the reasons assigned by that gentleman. He thought a navy would be a great evil for this country. Our great interests lay in the soil; and if ever the vitals of the country were to be drawn together for the purpose of protecting our commerce on the sea, he should greatly lament it. He believed the despotism of nations kept pace with the ratio of expense of their Governments. He was sorry to say that he was more and more convinced that it was the constant aim of some gentlemen in that House to increase the expenses of our Government. The propriety of establishing a navy had scarcely ever been seriously considered; it was first begun under an alarm, and it had been continually carried on by the same means.
Mr. Harper said gentlemen seem to abandon their objections to this bill by admitting that there was no probability it would not pass. But why? Because a majority of the House either think the measure is proper in itself, or from the particular circumstances of this country. It was surely a singular instance of modesty in gentlemen, after this concession, to argue against the passing of the bill.
Mr. H. did not admit that these frigates were commenced from an idea of laying the foundation of a large Navy Establishment, but from particular circumstances; and, said he, shall we, at a time when we are threatened with danger, abandon them? He trusted not; such conduct would be absurd in the extreme, and imply a character of imbecility which he hoped their councils would never deserve.
Mr. Allen said, he had some objection to the passing of the bill, but his objections were to the amendments which had been introduced into it, yet he did not know but he should vote for it. He thought there was a provision in the bill which went to prostrate this Government. He alluded to that part of it which directed the manner in which this force should be used. He considered this as a violation of the constitution, besides carrying upon the face of it an idea that one of the branches of this Government could not be trusted with the exercise of its power. Was it possible, he asked, for a Government to exist, when this confidence was refused to one of its branches? What were the people of the United States, and abroad, to think of this? Would not the people of this country think it their duty to destroy a power which could not be trusted; and would not foreigners despise it? It seemed as if this were the intention of gentlemen.
Mr. A. also objected to the clause limiting the duration of this bill; since this went to say that they not only distrusted the other branches of the Government, but themselves. A thing which must in its nature be perpetual, was there limited. He deprecated the idea of expense being an objection to this measure. Our emancipation from the chains of Great Britain, he said, was attended with a great expense; but was it not believed that the liberty and independence of this country were of superior value to money? He trusted they were. He could only suppose, therefore, that men who objected against the expense, must themselves be sordid and avaricious. If these frigates had been provided four years ago, he believed all our present difficulties would have been prevented, and a sum vastly less than that of which we had been robbed would have done the business. Mr. A. denied that ships of war could now be built in England for £1,000 a gun; that was formerly the price, but they now cost £1,500 per gun.