Abridgment of the Debates of Congress, from 1789 to 1856, Vol. 2 (of 16)

by United States. Congress

Mr. Gallatin thought it better that the House should again go into a Committee of the Whole on the bill for an amicable settlement of limits with Georgia, and for the erection of a government in the Mississippi Territory, as that subject had already undergone some discussion, and the bill had been reported with the information to obtain which it had been committed.

The latter business was preferred, and the House accordingly went into a Committee of the Whole on the subject; when Mr. Milledge's amendment being under consideration, for adding to the section for appointing a provisional Government in the Natchez country, "after the consent of the Legislature of Georgia shall have been obtained,"

Mr. Milledge observed, that the select committee had now reported all the documents on which the United States claimed a right to this territory. As to the title of Georgia, he should not enter into an inquiry as to that. He would only remark, that the State of Georgia was as tenacious of her rights as any State in the Union. But he thought it would not be improper to examine the pretended claim of the United States to this country. Looking into the journals of the Senate, he found that on the 3d of March, 1795, a resolution was passed directing the Attorney General to inquire into and make a report on the subject of the title of the United States to land in Georgia. No doubt the Attorney General not only examined the records of the State of Georgia, but those of the United States, and obtained all the information which he was able to do in the United States; but not finding sufficient ground upon which to found a title, he applied to Mr. Bayard, our Commissioner in London, who obtained a certificate on the subject from a Mr. Chalmers, Secretary to the Board of Trade and Plantations. Twelve months after he was directed to do so, the Attorney General made a report on the subject; but none of the documents which he reported went to establish the claim of the United States; nor any thing which tends to show that a cession of West Florida was ever made. But he now found among the papers got from the Senate, a letter addressed to Mr. Read of the Senate, from Mr. Livingston of New York, informing him that he encloses an extract from the instructions given by the King of Great Britain to Governor Chester. But Mr. Livingston was not known as an official character; and this document was neither official nor certified. Yet this is the ground upon which the United States claim this tract of country. Before the General Government proceeded to erect a temporary government, it ought to have better information with respect to the nature of its claim; for, to attempt to establish a government without the consent of Georgia, he thought would be stepping beyond the constitution, two clauses of which he quoted. He hoped the general powers placed in Congress for the defence of the country would not be resorted to in order to sanction the proceeding. It was said that the inhabitants of the district of country alluded to were in a situation which called for immediate attention. He allowed that it would be proper to pay early attention to them; but he thought, inconvenient as it might be, the erecting of a government might be deferred until the consent of the Legislature of Georgia could be obtained. It ought to be remembered that the State of Georgia is a member of the Union, and that it is her interest to make the cession, and he had no doubt she would do so. The convention of that State meet in May, and if application was made to them, he had no doubt the Legislature would be called together, and consent might be obtained by the month of July. He was confident the State of Georgia is desirous of promoting the interests of the United States, and that she is firmly attached to the Government; all its regulations had been constantly carried into effect there; and her consent to the establishment of a provisional government being obtained, every difficulty would be obviated.

Mr. Harper did not feel any anxiety to question the desire of the State of Georgia to promote the interests of the United States, and he was glad to be informed by her Representative, that she was so well disposed to the General Government, to which assertion he gave the fullest credit. He, therefore, should not oppose the motion of the gentleman on the ground that the State of Georgia would be likely to throw any obstacles in the way of the proposed temporary government; and he should be far from supposing, that, by the erection of such a government, the United States would assume an extra-judicial right to the territory. He was of opinion that the United States possessed the right to it, and that the most undeniable evidence of the right existed; but that evidence was not now before the House, and if it were, they were not the proper body to decide the question. He believed the amendment ought to be rejected on the ground of policy. The bill went to provide a temporary government, but contained an express clause that the establishment of this government shall not affect the rights of Georgia with respect to her right of the jurisdiction or soil of this territory—consequently, the fears of the gentleman are groundless in this respect. What, then, is the nature of the amendment? It is to prevent the erection of a temporary government in a district of country containing upwards of 5,000 souls, lying far beyond the ordinary jurisdiction of any State, with an immense wilderness intervening, in which are two nations of Indians, and in the neighborhood of the territory of a foreign nation, with whom, though we are at present at peace, when we recollect the connection subsisting between that nation and another with whom we have differences of a serious nature, we cannot reckon upon as lasting. Yet this remote and vulnerable corner of the Union is to be left defenceless for an indefinite period of time, lest we should possibly give umbrage to the State of Georgia, by providing a temporary government there before the dispute on the subject of limits is settled. And whatever may be the good disposition of Georgia towards the United States, it would require considerable time to obtain the consent proposed. Their Legislature do not meet till next winter. It was true, as had been stated, that their convention met in May, and they might, if they thought proper, call an extraordinary meeting of the Legislature; but this could not be relied upon. Besides, he saw no necessity for so much punctilio in this case, for if any State were to suffer a part of its territory, within its ordinary jurisdiction, to lie in a defenceless state, the General Government would be warranted in stepping in to defend it, and certainly they might do it in a case like the present, where no jurisdiction is exercised. And if this was not done, the petition of these people set forth, that however unwilling they should be to do so, they should be obliged to pass over to the Spanish dominions.

Mr. H. said, he did not wish to have touched upon the question of right; but as the gentleman from Georgia had said we had none, he felt himself obliged to say a few words upon that point. He allowed the committee had not before them evidence of the right which would be admissible in a court of law; but though it were not such as would be admitted in a court of law, had it therefore no weight? It was at least equal to what was every day received by the committees of the House. The question was, whether the papers before them afforded reason to believe that legal evidence of the title did exist? It was a copy of a commission and instructions given by the King of Great Britain to Governor Chester, of West Florida, in the year 1770, furnished by the gentleman who was Secretary to the Governor at that time, and whose duty it was to keep the records of that Government. But the gentleman from Georgia said, search had been made in the offices of the British Government for the original, of which this paper was a copy, and it could not be found. But this was no proof it did not exist. If it does exist, legal evidence may be obtained from it, and this paper shows that the Natchez country was included within the territory of West Florida, and that it ceased in the year 1770 to be a part of Georgia. He believed, however, this question ought not now to be acted upon; but that from necessity, and the exigencies of the case, a temporary government ought immediately to be provided for this district of country, and afterwards settle the point of right with Georgia by negotiation; and if it was found in the end that the United States had no title to it, the Government which had been established could be withdrawn.

But it was stated that the Legislature of Georgia would readily consent that the United States should become possessed of this country. But what were the terms upon which they proposed to cede it? They required, as one of the conditions, a million and a half of dollars in six per cent. stock, and as another (which was infinitely harder, since it might not be in our power to comply with it, as it depended upon the will of the Indians) that the United States will guarantee the relinquishment of the Indian claim to the land on the east side of the Chatahoochee, within a certain number of years. There is little hope, therefore, that the State of Georgia will propose any terms to which the United States can agree, as it had been seen that the Legislature of that State had rejected a bill by a great majority, which proposed the price to be one million of dollars with the other condition. Of course it would be very imprudent to rest the establishment of a government in this quarter upon an agreement to terms like these.

Besides, the amendment would affect the right claimed by the United States. To wait for this consent would be tantamount to confessing we had no right, and arm Georgia with a strong weapon against us in the final settlement.

Mr. H. contended that there was nothing in the constitution which could prevent the proposed measure, since it was absolutely necessary to preserve the people from falling into anarchy, and to prevent a foreign Government from putting arms into their hands. It was also a quarter of the Union which it was necessary to preserve, if we wished to secure the free navigation of the Mississippi, which we had lately obtained by the Spanish treaty; for if this country were invaded by the Indians, or involved in civil war, we could not have the benefit of the navigation of that river. He hoped, therefore, when so many considerations were opposed to it, the amendment would be disagreed to.

Mr. Nicholas understood from the gentleman from South Carolina, that it was not intended to insist upon the title of the United States to the territory in question; and if they were not ripe to decide that the land is the property of the United States, he thought they ought not to establish a Government there without paying some respect to the rights of Georgia, by obtaining her consent, as it might prevent that amicable settlement of which we had at present the prospect. If that State set the value upon the land which had been mentioned, would it not excite the utmost jealousy in that country to take forcible possession of it? To do this would certainly be to establish an influence in favor of the United States, which would be fatal to the claim of Georgia. No argument had been adduced to show the right of the United States to this territory, but merely to show the convenience of the measure. The gentleman from South Carolina might as well say that a certain district in Virginia is not so well governed as it might be, and, as the people would be happier under the Government of the United States, propose to take possession of it. But it was said Georgia had not begun to govern this territory. Neither have the United States. She may, for aught we know, be preparing to do it now. He thought there was not a shadow of pretence for taking the course proposed, without first consulting the Legislature of Georgia. He hoped the amendment would be agreed to.

Mr. J. Williams said it appeared to him, that if this amendment were to prevail, the bill might as well be voted out altogether. The bill had two objects, viz: a settlement of limits, and the fixing of a temporary government. It was clear to him, from the papers before the committee, that the United States had a clear title to the country in question, and, if this was not the case, there was a saving clause in favor of the Georgia claim. He thought that State ought to be happy at the idea of the United States fixing a government there, as it would assist them in their defence against the Indians. If gentlemen turned to the acts of Congress, it would be found what a vast expense the United States had heretofore been put to in defending the frontier of that country. He thought that State had been dealt with in a very favorable manner. It was not long since $100,000 were paid to their militia for defending their frontier. He complimented the gentleman from Georgia for having advocated so ably the cause of his State. But he thought that State ought to come forward and show what title she had to the country. It had been ceded to the United States by the Spanish Treaty, and the inhabitants there had a claim upon the General Government for protection, and surely if the State of Georgia for ever refused to give its consent to a government being established there, they were not for ever to be without government. The people there had petitioned Congress for a government, of which doubtless the State of Georgia was acquainted; and they ought to come forward in the business. Their silence proved to him that they had no title to that country. Mr. W. referred to the manner in which other cessions had been made to the Union, and said he thought Georgia ought to rejoice at the proposed establishment, as it would not only be benefiting that State, but the Union at large.