"As we were taking our leave of Mr. Talleyrand, we told him that two of us would return immediately, to receive instructions of our Government, if that would be agreeable to the Directory; if it was not, we would wait some time, in the expectation of receiving instructions."
So, that two of our Commissioners might be expected shortly to return, to lay certain propositions before the Government here, or that they will write for farther instructions; and, whilst these things are pending, can a proposition like the present be justified? He thought not. It was not, in his mind, a declaration of war; but it was evidently a war measure. And when it is evident, from our Envoys' own showing, that the negotiation between them and the Minister of Foreign Affairs in France was in train on the 8th of March, the date of their last despatches, as certain propositions had been made to them which were not rejected, he thought it would be extremely imprudent to refer resolutions of so hostile a kind as these certainly are. It would be time enough, Mr. D. said, to adopt a measure of this kind when our Envoys shall have informed us that peace is unattainable; but, whilst they held up a contrary expectation, he could not consent to do any thing which should cast wholly away the hope of preserving a state of peace. With respect to the first resolution, which declares the treaty between France and this country void, he had not much objection to it, because it must be so considered from the laws already passed; but those which respect the granting letters of marque and general reprisals, he thought very objectionable indeed.
Mr. Harper said, if the arguments of the gentleman from Kentucky were well founded, he had not introduced them at the proper time. If he views the state of our negotiation with France in the light which he had placed it, his objections to this measure are natural and consistent; but they ought to be made, when a bill is brought in, against its being read a second time; or if the motion had now been to adopt the resolutions instead of referring them, the remarks which he had made would have been perfectly in order; but that gentleman must know that there is a great difference between committing and agreeing to adopt a resolution. He would confess that he, for one, should not now be ready to agree to any of those propositions, though a fortnight hence he might be willing to adopt them all. If the motion was, therefore, for adopting, instead of referring them, he should move a postponement, or the previous question, or take some other mode of disposing of them; but when the motion was merely to refer them to a committee who might report upon them immediately, or let them lie until farther information was received from our commissioners; or, if they report a bill, that bill might lie until gentlemen thought proper to pass upon it. He did not, therefore, see any ground for the alarm which the gentleman from Kentucky has shown. He confessed he could not look upon our negotiation with France as in the happy train in which it appears to that gentleman. He knew we might have peace, if we would consent to have our property plundered ad libitum; or by paying a contribution to the full amount of our ability to pay, which were the terms that Talleyrand and his agents had offered to our Envoys; and this loan was made a sine qua non by Talleyrand. He could not tell, therefore, how the gentleman from Kentucky could conceive the negotiation to be in good train, except he is willing to pay the tribute which France demands from us.
Mr. Venable said, the gentleman last up had drawn a distinction between committing these resolutions and agreeing to them, and had said that he himself is not ready to agree to them. Mr. V. thought resolutions of this kind ought not to be laid upon the table before the House is ready to decide upon them, as the moment the foreign nation to which they have reference hears that such resolutions have been brought forward, they will take advantage of it, and seize all the property belonging to our citizens within their power. If the resolutions are not proper, therefore, to be adopted, they ought immediately to be rejected; for, if this is not done, we may expect that not only all the property of our citizens in French ports will be seized, but that all our vessels without exception which can be met with will be taken. He hoped, therefore, if gentlemen are of opinion with him that the time for taking measures like the present is not yet arrived, that the reference would be refused. It would do infinite mischief. We ought not, he said, to show a spirit of this kind, until we are perfectly prepared to act. And as he believed the House is better calculated to judge of the propriety of thus changing the situation of the country, than any committee could be, he should not choose to ask the opinion of the Committee for the Protection of Commerce and the Defence of the Country what he should do in this case.
Mr. R. Williams observed, that the gentleman from South Carolina seemed to argue in favor of committing these resolutions, as if no time would be so proper for doing so as the present. But he believed this House would be equally capable of judging of this matter hereafter as at present, and could act upon them in future as well as now. Why, then, ought the House now to refer them, when even the gentleman from South Carolina says he is not prepared to vote for them; but that if he were called upon now to vote upon them, he should give his negative on the question?
It appeared to him, Mr. W. said, that the reference of these resolutions could have no other appearance than that of a challenge, and will doubtless produce the consequences which have been mentioned by the gentleman from Virginia. And however their vessels may have depredated upon our commerce, and suffered their citizens to plunder us at sea, they have not gone so far as to make it a national act to seize all the property of our citizens within their power. He was, therefore, opposed to this reference: for though, whenever the time of actual war shall arrive, (for it seemed as if it must arrive,) we shall think it necessary to do France all the mischief we can, yet he did not think it would be prudent to tell them we mean to injure them in this or that way beforehand.
Mr. Harrison believed, that to refer these resolutions would be to give them a degree of sanction; and as he looked upon the question as very important, he should call for the yeas and nays upon it. They were agreed to be taken.
Mr. Gallatin said, it appeared to him that the committee to whom it is proposed to refer these resolutions might, without this reference, have brought the subject before the House, as they are appointed to consider whatever relates to the protection of commerce and the defence of the country. The reference must mean something more, therefore, than a mere instruction to them to consider the subject, because they have already those instructions given to them generally in their original appointment. What, he asked, could be obtained by a vote on this subject? He was at a loss to know. He could see no possible good to be derived from it. He wished, indeed, the committee to whom it is proposed to refer these resolutions, instead of doing the business committed to them by piecemeal, in the manner which they had adopted, had laid before the House at once a complete general plan of defence consistent with the present situation of the country. A majority of this House seem not only ready to take every defensive measure, but, in a certain degree, offensive measures also. This having been once determined, the committee might very well prepare such a plan. Such a plan would be more consistent and uniform, than if individual members were left to bring forward any measures which it may strike them as necessary to be taken. Of what use, Mr. G. asked, had been the reference of a set of resolutions made some days ago by Mr. Sitgreaves? No report has been made upon them. A part of them were of the same nature with these, and would authorize a report on this subject, if the committee had not the general power already mentioned.
So far as any conclusion could be drawn from the despatches of our Ministers, he confessed he had no great hopes of our negotiation with France being concluded in an effectual manner. He saw a kind of negotiation open between our Envoys and the French Minister for Foreign Affairs. He saw that the latter had asked for a loan; a demand inadmissible by our Envoys, since it was contrary to their instructions; a demand inadmissible from any instructions they might hereafter receive, for the sentiments of the Executive on that subject were well known; and, he would add, a demand inadmissible in its very nature, inadmissible in the opinion not only of this House, but of every individual in the House. So that, as long as that demand was insisted upon, no accommodation could be effected. But it must have been remarked, in the late despatches, that when our Envoys inquired of Mr. Talleyrand whether a loan of money was the ultimatum of the French Government, he did not choose to give a direct answer. This shows it to be possible that this demand may not be their ultimatum; and if not, as we have heard it reported, (though not officially,) that one of our Commissioners still remains in Paris, it would not be prudent to take any step that would defeat any treaty which might be in contemplation.
Mr. W. Claiborne hoped the motion for postponement would prevail, for, though a reference of those resolutions would not be a complete sanction of them, he should consider it as a prelude to a speedy adoption. His observation on the past proceedings of the House justified this remark.