Abridgment of the Debates of Congress, from 1789 to 1856, Vol. 2 (of 16)

by United States. Congress

Mr. Davis said, as the House had yesterday thought proper to negative a proposition to discharge the Committee of the Whole from the further consideration of the business, and as one great motive for that motion was the incompetency of evidence before the House, and as he knew it was in the power of the House to procure that evidence by a proper application, he hoped gentlemen would now indulge him in the adoption of the following, which he moved, viz:

Resolved, That the President of the United States be requested to direct the proper officer to lay before this House a copy of the proceedings of the court held in the district of South Carolina, in the case of Thomas Nash, calling himself Jonathan Robbins.

Mr. Bayard said, if he was persuaded, or if the gentleman could convince him that there was any particular evidence in the hands of any officer that would tend to throw such light as to give the least explanation to the case, he certainly would be willing to accord with the resolution; but he believed every necessary fact was before the House, and this had been acknowledged by several gentlemen. If the object was to prove that Nash was an American citizen, and that he was impressed, that could not be necessary as it respected the resolutions of the gentleman from New York, for that gentleman himself had acknowledged that he believed no such thing, but that the whole claim was falsehood. Would the gentleman, then, inform the House what point he wished to ascertain, or in what he expected additional proof? He wished information, farther, who was the "proper officer" to whom reference was expected to be made. There are but two officers at all in view, one is the Secretary of State, the other the District Judge of South Carolina; the gentleman could not suppose that the Judge would be able to transmit the records of that court previous to the adjournment of the House; and if it could be obtained, no evidence to the point could be expected from him. If, on the other hand, it was meant to call on the Secretary of State, it was not to be expected, from the nature of the case, that any more documents were in his hands than those already furnished; he had given copies of the correspondence and requisition, which, it might be fairly inferred, from the nature of his office, was all of which he could be possessed. But if any gentleman doubted this fact, he could apply to the office of the Secretary of State, from whom he could procure whatever was in his possession.

If it was the intention of the House to close this very disagreeable business in the present session, they must negative the resolution and let the discussion go forward. The gentleman who brought forward the resolution ought to have been provided with every document that was necessary to support the charges, before he suffered them to appear. However, he did not think but the gentleman who proposed the resolutions thought his grounds were quite sufficient to support them.

Mr. Nicholas said he always believed that the testimony was incomplete, but when he heard a gentleman get up and mention particular testimony which he considered so important that without it he should not know how to vote, whatever, Mr. N. said, might have been his former satisfaction as to the establishment of the points, he certainly must now be inclined to grant gentlemen every point of evidence that they should think necessary, if within the reach of the House.

One particular piece of testimony had been mentioned, viz: that the man had filed an affidavit that he was an American citizen and was impressed on board a British man-of-war. Could any gentleman pretend to say that no inference might be drawn from this source and the concomitant facts? The gentleman from New York, to be sure, had declared his satisfaction with the facts that had been produced to the House, but did the gentleman from Delaware know that this was the case with any other gentleman in the House? That gentleman's conclusions and impressions were not to be taken as the opinions of others, nor were others obliged to be satisfied because he was; and therefore to couple others in a measure to which they were not privy, and to ascribe opinions to them which they had not expressed, was at least unfair.

Mr. Dana thought this a most extraordinary resolution indeed? Was the President of the United States the clerk of the court, to keep the records of it? What had the President to do with the proceedings of that court? It was certainly a total departure from all the forms of judicial proceedings to suppose a thing of the kind. The gentlemen must certainly have mistaken the situation held by the President, or they would never have made such a vast departure from order and propriety of proceeding. The President is not the public accuser; he is not to be called upon for papers with which he has nothing to do. When he found gentlemen outraging every thing that belonged to judicial propriety; when he found them stumbling into error after error, and departing totally from all jurisprudential propriety, Mr. D. said, he could not avoid rising to oppose it.

Mr. Livingston said he did hope that this motion would not have been brought forward; but as he meant to vote in favor of it, after having declared his satisfaction with the documents, as sufficient to support his resolutions, he should be accused of advocating a question of which he had before spoken apparently differently, unless he should now give his reasons; and lest he should be accused of a desire to keep alive a calumny against the President of the United States, an effect which had been stated, he took opportunity to answer the insinuation by saying that he as much abhorred so mean a principle as any gentleman in the House.

Mr. Marshall said, it was with no inconsiderable regret that he perceived so much of the time of the House, which ought to be devoted to more beneficial purposes, employed in preliminary discussion. He thought that it was impossible the House could agree to a postponement, which the motion under consideration must cause when it was reflected how much time must be employed in procuring those papers—it could not take less than a month; for they could only be found, he would presume to say in the Court of the District of South Carolina: it was therefore scarcely to be expected that they could be obtained until just before the rising of the House, a period, if they arrived before the House rose, too late for their consideration.

Mr. Bayard said he could not distinguish between the present motion and one yesterday negatived, because it must operate as a discharge upon the Committee of the whole House. There could be no doubt but the Secretary of State had furnished all the papers relative to the business in his possession—indeed, he could assuredly say so. He said he held in his hand a letter from the Secretary of State, in answer to one from an honorable member of the House inquiring whether there were any more documents in his office; he answered that he had no certified copy whatever but those which he had furnished the President with, from whom they came to the House. Gentlemen must then perceive that the mere operation of this resolution was an absolute and inevitable postponement of the business till another session. Many gentlemen, who were yesterday ashamed to vote for a postponement, would now have a plausible cover for their vote by calling for additional proof, to accomplish the object of the resolution of yesterday; and thus he feared it would have many advocates, but, however specious the pretext, he hoped it would not be carried.