Mr. Rutledge said, that the members who had preceded him had talked much about the necessity of giving the people correct information of the transactions of that House. He believed there was not a single member who did not wish to impart to the people all the knowledge they could receive, and who did not highly prize the means of information furnished by the proceedings of that House. On this point there was no division. No one was desirous of excluding the stenographers, or prohibiting the publication of debates. The only question really before the House was, whether they should persevere in the old plan; whether they should confide in the integrity and the talents of the Speaker, who had hitherto merited their confidence, or whether, divesting him of his power, they should exercise a right themselves hitherto attached to his office.
Such a mode of procedure as had been pursued on this occasion was not conformable to that heretofore practised. An application somewhat similar had been, some time since, made to the Speaker. The Speaker decided, and the House, without debate, acquiesced in his decision. A stenographer had grossly misrepresented a member, and when required to correct his false statement, had insolently refused to do it, and added to the previous injury of misstatement insult of the most contumelious kind. The Speaker dismissed him from his place for this barefaced misconduct. Some of his friends made an appeal to the House. The House acted wisely, and, with becoming dignity, refused to interpose.
Now, said Mr. R., if any other stenographer, like the one I have alluded to, shall make it his systematic practice to misrepresent, and he continue as heretofore to hold his place at the tenure of the Speaker's permission, he may be dismissed by the Speaker without troubling the House. But should the motion made by the gentleman from North Carolina prevail, we shall be perpetually appealed to, and occupied in debate. For these reasons he trusted the report would be agreed to.
Mr. Hill said he considered the subject as simply involving an address to the sentiments of the members on the ground of personal convenience, and that on that ground he was ready to sacrifice any little inconvenience to the accommodation of the stenographers; stating at the same time his entire reliance upon the integrity and talents of the Speaker.
Mr. Griswold said, this is nothing less than an appeal from the Chair. To the Speaker has heretofore been committed the regulation of the admission of all persons whatever within the bar. This is the only correct mode in which such an object can be accomplished. The Speaker must exercise the discretion hitherto vested in him, otherwise the order of the House cannot be preserved. The object now is to take this power from the Speaker, and to open the area of the House to the stenographers, without the Speaker's approbation. It is said that only two persons at present apply. But if the door be once opened to admission in this way, there may be no end to intrusion. The Speaker being divested of power to act, and the necessity of acting being evident, the House will be perpetually troubled with appeals.
In his opinion, the power confided to the Speaker had been exercised in this case with great propriety. It must be apparent to every body that the area was too small to justify the admission of the stenographers. He believed it to be an idle pretence that the stenographers could not hear. He believed it to be a mere matter of pride, which would be gratified by an appeal from the Chair, and a reversal of the decision of the Speaker by the House.
Mr. Thatcher, persuaded that all the information derived from the debates of this House was of little comparative importance when viewed in relation to the general mass of information possessed by the people, cared but little for the event of the resolution before the House. Upon this ground he felt no anxiety whatever. As a matter of order, it might perhaps be of some importance. As to the convenience of position, he doubted whether a more correct account of the debates could not be given from a situation without the bar than within it. His reasons were these: It was well known that for four or five sessions after the organization of the Federal Government stenographers never came within the bar, and their positions during that period were as remote from the members as at present. Yet if any man would appeal to the debates then taken, he would find them as correctly taken as they have been at any time since. It is true, there were complaints of inaccuracy, but the debate takers never assigned, as a justification of their errors, the inconvenience of their situations; on the contrary, they declared that they did as well as they could, and contended that their reports were as correct as the nature of the case permitted.
When the seat of Government was transferred to Philadelphia, and the stenographers occupied places within the bar, complaints increased, the debates were taken more incorrectly, and two or three of the stenographers were actually turned out of the area within the bar; one of whom, he believed, was sent into the upper gallery.
The incorrectness of the published debates did not arise so much from an inability to hear as from an inability to take down a rapid speech.
Mr. T. said he believed the debates as taken down by Mr. Lloyd, were as accurately taken as any taken before or since. The conclusion he drew from these facts was, that if the stenographers were admitted by the House within the bar, the public would gain nothing by it. He had, however, no objection to their admission, if the Speaker approved it. They might, as far as he cared, take any place in the House; even seats alongside of the Speaker.