Mr. Blount presumed the gentleman would admit, as a certainty, that it was the duty of the House to provide effectual protection. The select committee having determined, in their own mind, that the best system of defence would be composed by fortifications and gunboats, had inquired what number, would be of use. The answer to this inquiry was already before the House; it was stated that the United States had already 69 gunboats—that 257 were the whole number which might be usefully employed; consequently that 188 were wanting. If it were the object of gentlemen to afford a certain protection to the country, he hoped they would not hesitate to pass this bill. If the gentleman from Pennsylvania should be able, when the subject was properly before them, to prove to Mr. B. that frigates or ships of war would add to the protection which might be afforded by fortifications and gunboats, he would vote with him for their construction. It would be time to discuss this when the subject was before them. He hoped the idea of the utility of a naval force would not induce gentlemen to withhold from the Executive that force which they had signified as necessary for the protection of our ports and harbors. If any doubt were entertained by gentlemen who were not members of the last Congress, there was a report, which he held in his hand, made at a former session, containing the opinions of naval officers on the expediency or utility of these boats. The report was lengthy, and he should not call for the reading of it, except gentlemen wished it. There was, however, no necessity to demonstrate their utility, as no gentleman had attempted to show that they were not eminently and essentially useful as one species of defence.
The gentleman last up has stated that I wished this mode of defence because it was the wish of the Executive. I stated expressly, and the gentleman must so have understood me, that the committee had selected this number of gunboats because they were informed that this number would be necessary. I referred to the document where this statement is expressed and where it may be found. I meant to express the opinion, that if we built a less number than necessary, it would be a waste of public money; and that protection would not be obtained by a less force than that which is proposed.
Mr. B. also said that the 88 gunboats would cost $440,000; that sum, when applied to the building of a large frigate, would not complete her; and when built, she would carry but 44 guns, one-half the number of guns which would be carried by 88 gunboats; besides which, the expense of rigging and making her fit for service would be enormous. Thus, by building one frigate only at the same expense as would complete 88 gunboats, they lost 44 guns, besides the additional expense of fitting out and manning the frigate. He had, however, only risen at this time to explain that he had been misrepresented when it was stated that he had said he should vote for this number of gunboats because the Executive had recommended it.
Mr. Smilie said the question was, whether they would appropriate a certain sum of money for the defence of their ports and harbors. He had not heard it said, and he hoped it never would be said, that they ought to defend themselves beyond their own shores. He confessed that he was now called upon to give his vote on a question to the decision of which he was not competent; but it being his duty to decide, he should, on this as on other subjects with which he was not well acquainted, depend upon the opinions of those who were. He believed many gentlemen in the House were in the same situation with himself, not being acquainted with naval affairs. It was the duty of the Executive to communicate information in answer to any inquiries which it was necessary to make. They had performed that duty, and the answers were in favor of gunboats. Should he then pursue any opinion of his own in contradiction to this, when he had no evidence on which to ground that opinion? Certainly not; he should depend upon those who possessed better information on the subject than himself, except there was something so absurd in their opinions that he could not swallow it.
Mr. Chandler said, when they had information from actual examination, that the contemplated number of gunboats would be necessary, he did believe that the proposed sum should be appropriated to that object. The gentleman from Pennsylvania, who had moved this amendment, professed himself as willing to protect our ports and harbors as any gentleman, but wished to strike out part of the number of gunboats, in order to adopt another mode of defence. Admitting that a frigate could be built for the sum which would complete eighty-eight gunboats; could he demonstrate that the force of forty-four guns would be equal to eighty-eight of heavier metal? Another thing he would mention; when the gunboats were constructed, a part of them might be removed, and they could increase or diminish the force at any particular place, as occasion might require; if they had one frigate in place of them, they could not divide her strength, and it could be retained at one point only.
Mr. Newton said it was not his intention to take up the time of the committee in a disquisition on the subject of gunboats; though, were he to attempt it, he had no doubt but he might be equally qualified with some gentlemen who had displayed their eloquence on this occasion. He thought they should now take into consideration the situation of the country in relation to Great Britain. Why were they now talking of defence, of fortifications, and of gunboats? Because they had arrived at a perilous crisis; the nation had been attacked; the blood of its citizens had been spilled; and they must have war, if reparation were not made. They heard by the papers that a Minister was to be sent to negotiate on the subject; but when that Minister arrived here, would any gentleman say that they would receive that reparation which he was prepared to offer? He believed not. When our affairs were thus situated, and as the gentleman from North Carolina (Mr. Macon) said a few days ago, when they were actually in a state of war, ought they not to make a better use of their time and the public money, than in debating on the details of a bill? If a treaty with Great Britain were laid upon their table at this moment, should they for that reason desist from preparations for defence? No; that nation had trampled on every moral principle; there was no faith in her; paper and parchment were no security for her good conduct. If they wished to be respected by that power, they must place themselves in a situation to return injury for injury; to retaliate on her for the violations of their rights. When they did this, they might expect something like decency of conduct, or respect for their rights from that power; until they put themselves in a situation to command her respect, they would in vain expect to receive it.
Mr. Gardenier said that although he was not one of those who entertained a great passion for gunboats, yet he could see certain situations in which they would be useful in aid of fortifications; but they should be restricted to a certain number. The mode of fortification which was proposed, was by gunboats and batteries; and the proportionate expenditure for these two objects, how much for one, and how much for the other, was a subject which would engage the attention of the House when it came properly before them. He should feel no objection to vote for the whole number of gunboats, were he certain at the same time that enough would be appropriated for land-batteries and other objects.
Mr. Masters said, if the amendment of the gentleman from North Carolina (Mr. Blount) had for its object to authorize the President to dam up the Hudson River by sinking blocks, he trusted the good sense of the committee would reject such a preposterous proposition. The injurious consequences of such an experimental measure to the city of New York, and the State at large, would be beyond calculation. It would, in all human probability, inundate, in high freshets, a considerable part of the town; and in low water, in the summer season, so prevent the influx of water as to cause the tide to recede more than thirty miles, and ruin a number of most flourishing towns one hundred and seventy miles up the river. The effects would be ruinous to one of the finest rivers in the world. It was a well-known fact that sinking the piers of Westminster bridge, in the river Thames, caused the tide to recede in that river upwards of seven miles; take the same data for calculation, and the tide in Hudson River would recede more than fifty miles. This, said Mr. M., is a visionary scheme to evade the real object of defence, and to introduce false notions of economy. Whenever we attempt to make appropriations for permanent forts and batteries, expense and economy are brought forward as an objection. The objects of necessary defence, and a prudent, well-regulated economy, can be easily reconciled; but your plausible and popular sound of economy, which is always the sweeping argument when this and similar measures are under consideration, is like a fine net, which is intended to catch every thing, both great and small. It may serve for a fine fancy to fill up a speech with, but will not answer for fortifications. It will endanger the nation by keeping us defenceless and weak, tempt aggressions, and invite the destruction of our seaport towns. Where, then, will be your economy?
Mr. Quincy said he would only ask the gentleman from North Carolina, as to his precise meaning in inserting the word “works.” This word was, perhaps, in common life, confined to constructions other than fortifications; he believed, however, it might include fortifications also. When he had asked the question as to the species of works contemplated to be erected, he had no conception that it was possible, under an expression of this kind, to comprehend the sinking of blocks to choke up the harbor of New York; for he had thought the erection of works was putting up, whilst sinking blocks was putting down. He had, however, a different object in rising. He had understood it to be the intention of this bill not only to authorize the repair of old fortifications, but the erection of new ones; and the bill as it stood antecedent to the gentleman’s amendment, might have been competent to that end. Now, as the gentleman had amended it, it would imply works different from fortifications as he understood. If indeed it were the real object of the gentleman to repair old fortifications only, and not to erect new ones, the bill would now answer his purpose fully. If it were otherwise, he conceived the language was not correct.
Mr. Blount said he felt very little solicitude as to the fate of his motion. His intention was to give a greater latitude to the discretion of the President. He would not, however, undertake to dispute with the gentleman from Massachusetts on the precise meaning of words; for he had not spent his early life within the walls of a college, as that gentleman had, but in the field, fighting for the liberties of his country. Under the belief that the word works did include fortifications, he had made his motion for amendment. It was the intention of the committee both to erect new works and to repair old ones. If the gentlemen from New York and Massachusetts were determined to restrain the President from giving that protection to the port of New York which the people of that State should think proper, he was content. He did not wish to waste the time of the House unnecessarily, especially on a subject which required so much expedition.