Abridgment of the Debates of Congress, from 1789 to 1856, Vol. 3 (of 16)

by United States. Congress

Mr. Griswold remarked that it would be more orderly to move the striking out of the last paragraph.

Mr. Thatcher said, gentlemen objecting to this resolution had taken different grounds. Some oppose it as inconsistent with the sentiments that prevailed in the case of the British Treaty; others, because it is premature, and others, because it is unnecessary. He did not expect the first objection from any member on that floor; much less did he expect it from the quarter in which it originated. The advocates of the motion were charged with inconsistency. He was not a member of the House at the time of the British Treaty, but, on referring to the Journal, it would be perceived that the object of gentlemen who then called for papers was to go into the merits of the British Treaty. It would not be denied that the ground then taken by gentlemen on the other side was, that the House had a right to examine the merits of the treaty, and to the assertion of that right it was that the President answered. We now say that it is not necessary for us to act in our legislative capacity, intending, if it shall appear to be necessary, not to withhold acting. Mr. T. therefore conceived that they exhibited no inconsistency, as they did not purpose at this time to go into the merits of the treaty, and as they acknowledged the treaty, if constitutionally made, to be binding. But they wanted information on subjects of legislation.

Mr. Nicholson was extremely glad to find that gentlemen on the other side of the House had at length abandoned the ground which they had taken some years ago. He was rejoiced that they were now willing to acknowledge, what they had heretofore most strenuously denied, that the House of Representatives had a constitutional right, not only to call for papers, but to use their discretion in carrying any treaty into effect. That it must now be their impression was evident, or their conduct was surely unaccountable. Why else do they call for papers, why inquire into our title to the province of Louisiana? If the doctrine of a former day was still to be adhered to, why urge this inquiry? If gentlemen are consistent with themselves, if they have not forgot the lessons which they inculcated upon the ratification of the British Treaty, this House has no right to call for papers, no right to make inquiry, no right to deliberate, but must carry this treaty into effect, be it good or bad; must vote for all the necessary measures, whether they are calculated to promote the interests of the United States or not. The doctrines of old times, however, are now given up, the ground formerly taken is abandoned. We shall no longer hear that the Executive is omnipotent, and that the representatives of the people are bound to vote, blindfolded, for carrying into effect all treaties which the President and the Senate may think proper to make and ratify. He thanked the gentlemen for the admission, and hoped that the country would profit by it hereafter.

He was happy to say that this was not now, nor ever was, the doctrine of himself and his friends. They meant to deliberate, they meant to use their discretion in voting away the treasure of the nation. He agreed with gentlemen, that if a majority of the House entertained any doubt as to the validity of the title we have acquired, they ought to call for papers; and he had no doubt, if there was any dissatisfaction, they would call. He himself should have no objection to vote for the resolution if it was confined to proper objects, not indeed to satisfy himself, for he was already fully satisfied, but to satisfy other gentlemen; to satisfy the American people, that the insinuations thrown out about the title, are totally without foundation. The resolution in its present shape, however, was highly improper; it looked to extrinsic circumstances, and contemplated an inquiry into subjects totally unconnected with the treaty with France. What, said Mr. N., has Spain to do in this business? Gentlemen ask if she has acquiesced in our purchase, and call for her correspondence with our Government. What is the acquiescence of Spain to us? If the House is satisfied, from the information laid on the table, that Spain had ceded Louisiana to France, and that France had since ceded it to the United States, what more do they require? Are we not an independent nation? Have we not a right to make treaties for ourselves without asking leave of Spain? What is it to us whether she acquiesces or not? She is no party to the treaty of cession, she has no claim to the ceded territory. Are we to pause till Spain thinks proper to consent, or are we to inquire, whether, like a cross child, she has thrown away her rattle, and cries for it afterwards?

With regard to the Treaty of St. Ildefonso, Mr. N. said, he should have no objection to its being laid before the House, if it was in the possession of the Executive. In all probability, however, this was not the case, as it was known to be a secret treaty on other subjects of great importance between France and Spain. As to the deed of cession spoken of, he really did not understand what was meant, for he imagined it was not expected a formal deed of bargain and sale had been executed between two civilized nations, who negotiated by means of ambassadors. If there were any other papers which could give gentlemen more information, he had no objection, either, that these should be laid before them. Not indeed for his own satisfaction, but for that of those who were not already satisfied, if there were any of that description. One very important paper, he knew from high authority, was certainly in existence, and possibly might be in the power of the Executive. This was a formal order, under the royal signature of Spain, commanding the Spanish officers at Orleans to deliver the province to the French Prefect, which he considered equal, perhaps superior to any deed of cession; for it was equal to an express recognition on the part of Spain, that France had performed all the conditions referred to in the Treaty of St. Ildefonso. It was an acknowledgment that Spain had no further claims upon Louisiana, and would show that any interference on her part ought to have no influence on the American Government.

Mr. Mitchell said he rose to express his sentiments against the whole body of the resolution under debate. But his disinclination to adopt it did not arise from any doubt of the right which the House possessed to call upon the Executive for information. He had no hesitation to ask the President for papers whenever it was necessary to obtain them. And it was equally clear to him that whenever that dignified officer was properly applied to, he would comply cheerfully with the request of Congress, or of either branch of it. He owned that in some cases it would be the duty of the House to pursue this mode of inquiry, and equally would it be the duty of the head of the Executive Department to give his aid and countenance.

In the present stage of the proceedings respecting the treaty and conventions with France concerning Louisiana, he deemed it improper to embarrass the business by an unseasonable call upon the Executive for papers. The President had already communicated various information on this subject, in his Message on the first day of the session. Additional information was given in his Message of the 21st, wherein he told the House that the ratification and exchanges had been made. This was accompanied with instruments of cession and covenant concluded at Paris between our ministers and the agents of the French Republic. All this information we had already on our tables. This the President had put the House in possession of from his own sense of duty. This obligation was imposed on him by the constitution, which declares that he shall, from time to time, give to Congress information of the state of the Union, and recommend to their consideration such measures as he shall judge necessary and expedient. Mr. M. said he had a firm belief that the President had complied with this constitutional injunction. He had communicated such intelligence as he had received; and if he was possessed of any thing else needful for the deliberation of the House, he was willing to think the Chief Magistrate of the Union would have spontaneously imparted it.

The question was taken on agreeing to the first member of the resolution, as follows:

Resolved, That the President of the United States be requested to cause to be laid before this House a copy of the treaty between the French Republic and Spain, of the 1st of October, 1800.

The House divided—ayes 59, noes 59. The Speaker declaring himself in the affirmative, the motion was carried.