The Journal of the Debates in the Convention which Framed the Constitution of the United States, May-September 1787. Volume 1

by United States. Constitutional Convention; James Madison

"M^r Madison. I oppose the motion—there are no difficulties, but they may be obviated in the details connected with the subject."—Yates, Secret Proceedings, etc., 149.

Col. Hamilton considered the Motion as intended manifestly to transfer the election from the people to the State Legislatures, which would essentially vitiate the plan. It would increase that State influence which could not be too watchfully guarded ag^st. All too must admit the possibility, in case the Gen^l Gov^t sh^d maintain itself, that the State Gov^ts might gradually dwindle into nothing. The system therefore sh^d not be engrafted on what might possibly fail.

M^r Mason urged the necessity of retaining the election by the people. Whatever inconveniency may attend the democratic principle, it must actuate one part of the Gov^t. It is the only security for the rights of the people.

M^r Sherman, would like an election by the Legislatures best, but is content with the plan as it stands.

M^r Rutlidge could not admit the solidity of the distinction between a mediate & immediate election by the people. It was the same thing to act by oneself, and to act by another. An election by the Legislature would be more refined than an election immediately by the people: and would be more likely to correspond with the sense of the whole community. If this Convention had been chosen by the people in districts it is not to be supposed that such proper characters would have been preferred. The Delegates to Cong^s he thought had also been fitter men than would have been appointed by the people at large.

M^r Wilson considered the election of the 1^st branch by the people not only as the Corner Stone, but as the foundation of the fabric: and that the difference between a mediate & immediate election was immense. The difference was particularly worthy of notice in this respect: that the Legislatures are actuated not merely by the sentiment of the people; but have an official sentiment opposed to that of the Gen^l Gov^t and perhaps to that of the people themselves.

M^r King enlarged on the same distinction. He supposed the Legislatures w^d constantly choose men subservient to their own views as contrasted to the general interest; and that they might even devise modes of election that w^d be subversive of the end in view. He remarked several instances in which the views of a State might be at variance with those of the Gen^l Gov^t: and mentioned particularly a competition between the National & State debts, for the most certain & productive funds.

Gen^l Pinkney was for making the State Gov^ts a part of the General System. If they were to be abolished, or lose their agency, S. Carolina & other States would have but a small share of the benefits of Gov^t.

On the question for Gen^l Pinkney motion to substitute election of the 1^st branch in such mode as the Legislatures should appoint, in stead of its being elected by the people"

Mass^ts no. Con^t ay. N. Y. no. N. J. ay. P^a no. Del. ay. M^d div^d. V^a no. N. C. no. S. C. ay. Geo. no.