Mr Williamson thought it would be necessary to return to the rule of numbers, but that the Western States stood on different footing. If their property shall be rated as high as that of the Atlantic States, then their representation ought to hold a like proportion. Otherwise if their property was not to be equally rated.
Mr Govr Morris. The Report is little more than a guess. Wealth was not altogether disregarded by the Come. Where it was apparently in favor of one State, whose nos were superior to the numbers of another, by a fraction only, a member extraordinary was allowed to the former: and so vice versa. The Committee meant little more than to bring the matter to a point for the consideration of the House.
Mr Reed asked why Georgia was allowed 2 members, when her number of inhabitants had stood below that of Delaware.
Mr Govr Morris. Such is the rapidity of the population of that State, that before the plan takes effect, it will probably be entitled to 2 Representatives.
Mr Randolph, disliked the Report of the Come but had been unwilling to object to it. He was apprehensive that as the number was not be changed, till the Natl Legislature should please, a pretext would never be wanting to postpone alterations, and keep the power in the hands of those possessed of it. He was in favor of the Commitmt to a member from each State.
Mr Patterson considered the proposed estimate for the future according to the combined rules of numbers and wealth, as too vague. For this reason N. Jersey was agst it. He could regard negroes slaves in no light but as property. They are no free agents, have no personal liberty, no faculty of acquiring property, but on the contrary are themselves property, & like other property entirely at the will of the Master. Has a man in Virga a number of votes in proportion to the number of his slaves? And if negroes are not represented in the States to which they belong, why should they be represented in the Genl Govt. What is the true principle of Representation? It is an expedient by which an assembly of certain individls chosen by the people is substituted in place of the inconvenient meeting of the people themselves. If such a meeting of the people was actually to take place, would the slaves vote? They would not. Why then shd they be represented. He was also agst such an indirect encouragemt of the slave trade; observing that Congs in their act relating to the change of the 8 art: of Confedn had been ashamed to use the term "slaves" & had substituted a description.
Mr Madison reminded Mr Patterson that his doctrine of Representation which was in its principle the genuine one, must forever silence the pretensions of the small States to an equality of votes with the large ones. They ought to vote in the same proportion in which their Citizens would do, if the people of all the States were collectively met. He suggested as a proper ground of compromise, that in the first branch the States should be represented according to their number of free inhabitants; And in the 2d which had for one of its primary objects the guardianship of property, according to the whole number, including slaves.
Mr Butler urged warmly the justice & necessity of regarding wealth in the apportionment of Representation.
Mr King had always expected that as the Southern States are the richest, they would not league themselves with the Northn unless some respect were paid to their superior wealth. If the latter expect those preferential distinctions in Commerce, & other advantages which they will derive from the connexion they must not expect to receive them without allowing some advantages in return. Eleven out of 13 of the States had agreed to consider Slaves in the apportionment of taxation; and taxation and Representation ought to go together.
On the question for committing the first paragraph of the Report to a member from each State