Mass. divd. Cont ay. N. J. no. Pa ay. Del. no. Md ay. Va ay. N. C. ay. S. C. divd. Geo. ay.
Friday, July 13. In Convention.
It being moved to postpone the clause in the Report of the Committee of Eleven as to the originating of money bills in the first branch, in order to take up the following—"that in the 2d branch each State shall have an equal voice,"
Mr Gerry, moved to add as an amendment to the last clause agreed to by the House, "that from the first meeting of the Legislature of the U.S. till a census shall be taken all monies to be raised for supplying the public Treasury by direct taxation shall be assessed on the inhabitants of the several States according to the number of their Representatives respectively in the 1st branch." He said this would be as just before as after the Census; according to the general principle that taxation & Representation ought to go together.
Mr Williamson feared that N. Hampshire will have reason to complain. 3 members were allotted to her as a liberal allowance, for this reason among others, that she might not suppose any advantage to have been taken of her absence. As she was still absent, and had no opportunity of deciding whether she would chuse to retain the number on the condition, of her being taxed in proportion to it, he thought the number ought to be reduced from three to two, before the question was taken on Mr G's motion.
Mr Read could not approve of the proposition. He had observed he said in the Committee a backwardness in some of the members from the large States, to take their full proportion of Representatives. He did not then see the motive. He now suspects it was to avoid their due share of taxation. He had no objection to a just & accurate adjustment of Representation & taxation to each other.
Mr Govr Morris & Mr Madison answered that the charge itself involved an acquittal; since notwithstanding the augmentation of the number of members allotted to Massts & Va the motion for proportioning the burdens thereto was made by a member from the former State & was approved by Mr M. from the latter who was on the Come. Mr Govr Morris said that he thought Pa had her due share in 8 members; and he could not in candor ask for more. Mr M. said that having always conceived that the difference of interest in the U. States lay not between the large & small, but the N. & Southn States, and finding that the number of members allotted to the N. States was greatly superior, he should have preferred, an addition of two members to the S. States, to wit one to N. & 1 to S. Carla rather than of one member to Virga. He liked the present motion, because it tended to moderate the views both of the opponents & advocates for rating very high, the negroes.
Mr Elseworth hoped the proposition would be withdrawn. It entered too much into detail. The general principle was already sufficiently settled. As fractions can not be regarded in apportioning the No of representatives, the rule will be unjust, until an actual census shall be made. After that taxation may be precisely proportioned according to the principle established, to the number of inhabitants.
Mr Wilson hoped the motion would not be withdrawn. If it shd it will be made from another quarter. The rule will be as reasonable & just before, as after a Census. As to fractional numbers, the Census will not destroy, but ascertain them. And they will have the same effect after as before the Census; for as he understands the rule, it is to be adjusted not to the number of inhabitants, but of Representatives.