The Journal of the Debates in the Convention which Framed the Constitution of the United States, May-September 1787. Volume 1

by United States. Constitutional Convention; James Madison

The 1^st member "That the Nat^l Legislature ought to possess the Legislative Rights vested in Cong^s by the Confederation" was agreed to nem. con.

The next, "And moreover to legislate in all cases to which the separate States are incompetent; or in which the harmony of the U. S. may be interrupted by the exercise of individual legislation," being read for a question.

M^r Butler calls for some explanation of the extent of this power; particularly of the word incompetent. The vagueness of the terms rendered it impossible for any precise judgment to be formed.

M^r Ghorum. The vagueness of the terms constitutes the propriety of them. We are now establishing general principles, to be extended hereafter into details which will be precise & explicit.

M^r Rutlidge, urged the objection started by M^r Butler and moved that the clause should be committed to the end that a specification of the powers comprised in the general terms, might be reported.

On the question for commitment, the States were equally divided

Mas. no. Con^t ay. N. J. no. P^a no. Del. no. M^d ay. V^a ay. N. C. no. S. C. ay. Geo. ay: So it was lost.

M^r Randolph. The vote of this morning (involving an equality of suffrage in 2^d branch) had embarrassed the business extremely. All the powers given in the Report from the Com^e of the whole, were founded on the supposition that a Proportional representation was to prevail in both branches of the Legislature. When he came here this morning his purpose was to have offered some propositions that might if possible have united a great majority of votes, and particularly might provide ag^st the danger suspected on the part of the smaller States, by enumerating the cases in which it might lie, and allowing an equality of votes in such cases.[133] But finding from the Preceding vote that they persist in demanding an equal vote in all cases, that they have succeeded in obtaining it, and that N. York, if present would probably be on the same side, he could not but think we were unprepared to discuss this subject further. It will probably be in vain to come to any final decision with a bare majority on either side. For these reasons he wished the Convention might adjourn, that the large States might consider the steps proper to be taken in the present solemn crisis of the business, and that the small States might also deliberate on the means of conciliation.

[ [133] See the paper, in the appendix, com̃unicated by M^r R. to J. M. July 10.—Note in Madison's hand.

M^r Patterson, thought with M^r R. that it was high time for the Convention to adjourn that the rule of secrecy ought to be rescinded, and that our Constituents should be consulted. No conciliation could be admissible on the part of the smaller States on any other ground than that of an equality of votes in the 2^d branch. If M^r Randolph would reduce to form his motion for an adjournment sine die, he would second it with all his heart.