The Journal of the Debates in the Convention which Framed the Constitution of the United States, May-September 1787. Volume 1

by United States. Constitutional Convention; James Madison

Mass. no. Con^t ay. N. Y. ay. N. J. no. P^a no. Del. no. M^d no. V^a ay. N. C. no. S. C. no. Geo. no.

M^r Pinkney gave notice that tomorrow he should move for the reconsideration of that clause in the sixth Resolution adopted by the Comm^e which vests a negative in the National Legislature on the laws of the several States.

The Com^e rose & the House adj^d to 11 OC.

---

Thursday June 7^th 1787—In Committee of the whole

M^r Pinkney according to notice moved to reconsider the clause respecting the negative on State laws, which was agreed to, and tomorrow for fixed the purpose.

The Clause providing for y^e appointment of the 2^d branch of the national Legislature, having lain blank since the last vote on the mode of electing it, to wit, by the 1^st branch, M^r Dickinson now moved "that the members of the 2^d branch ought to be chosen by the individual Legislatures."

M^r Sherman seconded the motion; observing that the particular States would thus become interested in supporting the National Govenm^t and that a due harmony between the two Governments would be maintained. He admitted that the two ought to have separate and distinct jurisdictions, but that they ought to have a mutual interest in supporting each other.

M^r Pinkney. If the small States should be allowed one Senator only, the number will be too great, there will be 80 at least.

M^r Dickinson had two reasons for his motion. 1, because the sense of the States would be better collected through their Governments; than immediately from the people at large; 2. because he wished the Senate to consist of the most distinguished characters, distinguished for their rank in life and their weight of property, and bearing as strong a likeness to the British House of Lords as possible; and he thought such characters more likely to be selected by the State Legislatures, than in any other mode. The greatness of the number was no objection with him. He hoped there would be 80 and twice 80. of them. If their number should be small, the popular branch could not be balanced by them. The legislature of a numerous people ought to be a numerous body.