Massts no. Cont ay. N. Y. no. N. J. ay. Pa ay. Del. no. Md no. Va no. N. C. divd. S. C. no. Geo. divd.
On the question for filling the blank with 30 years as the qualification; it was agreed to,
Massts ay. Ct no. N. Y. ay. N. J. no. Pa ay. Del. no. Md ay. Va ay. N. C. ay. S. C. ay. Geo. no.
Mr Spaight moved to fill the blank for the duration of the appointmts to the 2d branch of the National Legislature with the words "7 years."
Mr Sherman, thought 7 years too long. He grounded his opposition he said on the principle that if they did their duty well, they would be reelected. And if they acted amiss, an earlier opportunity should be allowed for getting rid of them. He preferred 5 years which wd be between the terms of the 1st branch & of the executive.
Mr Pierce proposed 3 years. 7 years would raise an alarm. Great mischiefs had arisen in England from their septennial Act which was reprobated by most of their patriotic Statesmen.
Mr Randolph was for the term of 7 years. The democratic licentiousness of the State Legislatures proved the necessity of a firm Senate. The object of this 2d branch is to controul the democratic branch of the Natl Legislature. If it be not a firm body, the other branch being more numerous, and coming immediately from the people, will overwhelm it. The Senate of Maryland constituted on like principles had been scarcely able to stem the popular torrent. No mischief can be apprehended, as the concurrence of the other branch, and in some measure, of the Executive, will in all cases be necessary. A firmness & independence may be the more necessary also in this branch, as it ought to guard the Constitution agst encroachments of the Executive who will be apt to form combinations with the demagogues of the popular branch.
Mr Madison, considered 7 years as a term by no means too long. What we wished was to give to the Govt that stability which was every where called for, and which the Enemies of the Republican form alledged to be inconsistent with its nature. He was not afraid of giving too much stability by the term of Seven years. His fear was that the popular branch would still be too great an overmatch for it. It was to be much lamented that we had so little direct experience to guide us. The Constitution of Maryland was the only one that bore any analogy to this part of the plan. In no instance had the Senate of Maryd created just suspicions of danger from it. In some instances perhaps it may have erred by yielding to the H. of Delegates. In every instance of their opposition to the measures of the H. of D. they had had with them the suffrages of the most enlightened and impartial people of the other States as well as of their own. In the States where the Senates, were chosen in the same manner as the other branches, of the Legislature, and held their seats for 4 years, the institution was found to be no check whatever agst the instabilities of the other branches. He conceived it to be of great importance that a stable & firm Govt, organized in the republican form should be held out to the people. If this be not done, and the people be left to judge of this species of Govt by ye operations of the defective systems under which they now live, it is much to be feared the time is not distant when, in universal disgust, they will renounce the blessing which they have purchased at so dear a rate, and be ready for any change that may be proposed to them.
On the question for "seven years" as the term for the 2d branch Massts divided. (Mr King, Mr Ghorum ay, Mr Gerry, Mr Strong, no) Cont no. N. Y. divd N. J. ay. Pa ay. Del. ay. Md ay. Va ay. N. C. ay. S. C. ay. Geo. ay.
Mr Butler and Mr Rutlidge proposed that the members of the 2d branch should be entitled to no salary or compensation for their services. On the question,[81]—