The Journal of the Debates in the Convention which Framed the Constitution of the United States, May-September 1787. Volume 2

by United States. Constitutional Convention; James Madison

M^r Mason. had suggested the idea of a select militia. He was led to think that would be in fact as much as the Gen^l Gov^t could advantageously be charged with. He was afraid of creating insuperable objections to the plan. He withdrew his original motion, and moved a power "to make laws for regulating and disciplining the militia, not exceeding one tenth part in any one year, and reserving the appointment of officers to the States."

Gen^l Pinkney, renewed M^r Mason's original motion. For a part to be under the Gen^l and a part under the State Gov^ts w^d be an incurable evil. he saw no room for such distrust of the Gen^l Gov^t.

M^r Langdon 2^ds General Pinkney's renewal. He saw no more reason to be afraid of the Gen^l Gov^t than of the State Gov^ts. He was more apprehensive of the confusion of the different authorities on this subject, than of either.

M^r Madison thought the regulation of the Militia naturally appertaining to the authority charged with the public defence. It did not seem in its nature to be divisible between two distinct authorities. If the States would trust the Gen^l Gov^t with a power over the public treasure, they would from the same consideration of necessity grant it the direction of the public force. Those who had a full view of the public situation w^d from a sense of the danger, guard ag^st it: the States would not be separately impressed with the general situation, nor have the due confidence in the concurrent exertions of each other.

M^r Elseworth, considered the idea of a select militia as impracticable; & if it were not it would be followed by a ruinous declension of the great body of the Militia. The States would never submit to the same militia laws. Three or four shillings as a penalty will enforce better obedience in New England, than forty lashes in some other places.

M^r Pinkney thought the power such an one as could not be abused, and that the States would see the necessity of surrendering it. He had however but a scanty faith in Militia. There must be also a real military force. This alone can effectually answer the purpose. The United States had been making an experiment without it, and we see the consequence in their rapid approaches toward anarchy. [34]

[ [34] This had reference to the disorders particularly that had occurred in Massach^ts which had called for the interposition of the federal troops.–Madison's Note.

M^r Sherman, took notice that the States might want their militia for defence ag^st invasions and insurrections, and for enforcing obedience to their laws. They will not give up this point. In giving up that of taxation, they retain a concurrent power of raising money for their own use.

M^r Gerry thought this the last point remaining to be surrendered. If it be agreed to by the Convention, the plan will have as black a mark as was set on Cain. He had no such confidence in the Gen^l Gov^t as some gentlemen possessed, and believed it would be found that the States have not.

Col. Mason, thought there was great weight in the remarks of M^r Sherman, and moved an exception to his motion "of such part of the militia as might be required by the States for their own use."