The Journal of the Debates in the Convention which Framed the Constitution of the United States, May-September 1787. Volume 2 - United States. Constitutional Convention; James Madison

M^r Wilson. When the majority of a State wish to divide they can do so. The aim of those in opposition to the article, he perceived was that the Gen^l Government should abet the minority, & by that means divide a State against its own consent.

M^r Gov^r Morris. If the forced division of the States is the object of the new system, and is to be pointed ag^st one or two States, he expected the Gentlemen from these would pretty quickly leave us.

Adjourned.

Thursday August 30th 1787. In Convention

Art XVII resumed for a question on it as amended by M^r Gov^r Morris's substitutes.

M^r Carrol moved to strike out so much of the article as requires the consent of the State to its being divided. He was aware that the object of this prerequisite might be to prevent domestic disturbances; but such was our situation with regard to the Crown lands, and the sentiments of Maryland on that subject, that he perceived we should again be at sea, if no guard was provided for the right of the U. States to the back lands. He suggested that it might be proper to provide that nothing in the Constitution should affect the Right of the U. S. to lands ceded by G. Britain in the Treaty of peace, and proposed a committment to a member from each State. He assured the House that this was a point of a most serious nature. It was desirable above all things that the act of the Convention might be agreed to unanimously. But should this point be disregarded, he believed that all risks would be run by a considerable minority, sooner than give their concurrence.

M^r L. Martin 2^ded the motion for a commitment.

M^r Rutlidge. Is it to be supposed that the States are to be cut up without their own consent. The case of Vermont will probably be particularly provided for. There could be no room to fear, that Virginia or N. Carolina would call on the U. States to maintain their Government over the Mountains.

M^r Williamson said that N. Carolina was well disposed to give up her western lands, but attempts at compulsion was not the policy of the U. S. He was for doing nothing in the constitution in the present case, and for leaving the whole matter in Statu quo.