Mr. Jenner. You did not see any?
Mrs. Paine. I did not.
Mr. McCloy. Did you ever engage in any discussion or dialectics with Lee about the respective merits of the capitalist system or the Soviet system? Did you engage in any debates with him on political philosophy?
Mrs. Paine. I once listened to such a debate between Lee and my husband, in October.
Mr. Dulles. You kept out of the debate?
Mrs. Paine. I tried hard. I felt it was not going anywhere, and that he was not a man that could be approached by logic, and that there was no point to arguing with him. I disagreed with him quite strongly, and I didn't see how it would help in any way to say so, or to try to change—certainly it would not have helped to try to change his views. He, for instance, was of the opinion that all churches were an arm of the state, intent upon blinding the people. I thought his thinking was extremely erroneous, and not open to introduction of other facts, anything contradictory to his own view.
Mr. McCloy. Did he become intemperate in argument?
Mrs. Paine. No; he did not.
Mr. McCloy. But in the course of his discussions with your husband, did he assert adherence to the element of violence as a factor——
Mrs. Paine. Michael tells me he did. I didn't hear that particular discussion.