Mr. Arce. Right in front of the Texas School Book Depository.

Mr. Ball. When?

Mr. Arce. Right, you know, it was before it happened; I don't know.

Mr. Ball. How long before the President went by?

Mr. Arce. I don't know. I think it was about 10 minutes, some place around there, 15 minutes; I'm not too sure.

Mr. Ball. What about the old man; what was noticeable about him?

Mr. Arce. Well, he said he had kidney trouble, could I direct him to the men's room and I said I would and I helped him up the steps and walked him into the restroom and I opened the door for him and that's when I went inside to eat my lunch and then I seen him walk out.

Mr. Ball. Did you see him talk to anyone in there?

Mr. Arce. No; he went straight out.

Mr. Ball. Was he in a car?