Mr. Carroll. I saw standing up at the time—Oswald was standing up there at that time. Several of us were converging at the same time upon him.
Mr. Ball. Where was McDonald?
Mr. Carroll. He was on Oswald's, let me see, the first time I think I saw Nick was, I believe he was on Oswald's right side.
Mr. Ball. Were they struggling?
Mr. Carroll. Everyone was struggling with him—yes, sir.
Mr. Ball. I mean, were Oswald and McDonald struggling together?
Mr. Carroll. Yes, sir; and then when I got up close enough, I saw a pistol pointing at me so I reached and grabbed the pistol and jerked the pistol away and stuck it in my belt, and then I grabbed Oswald.
Mr. Ball. Who had hold of that pistol at that time?
Mr. Carroll. I don't know, sir. I just saw the pistol pointing at me and I grabbed it and jerked it away from whoever had it and that's all, and by that time then the handcuffs were put on Oswald.
Mr. Ball. Who put them on him?