Mr. Voshinin. I was present on that occasion.
And George discussed the question, you know, about the Vlassov army. That was an army composed of Russian—Soviet Russian prisoners of war who wanted to fight the Communists.
Mr. Jenner. What was the name of this army?
Mr. Voshinin. Vlassov [spelling] V-l-a-s-s-o-v.
And he told the story of the Vlassov army but, in between, he injected a lot of praise for such people like Himmler.
Mr. Jenner. Heinrich Himmler?
Mr. Voshinin. Heinrich Himmler. He said, "After all, I came to the conclusion that Himmler wasn't a bad boy at all."
You know, that's typically George.
Mr. Jenner. Do you think that this was sincere or do you think that he was just attempting to provoke shock?
Mr. Voshinin. I think he was attempting to provoke shock. Especially there were, at least, three Jewish people there present—Sam Ballen and Lev Aronson. I saw that Lev Aronson almost didn't—was, became red, terribly red in his face. I was afraid that the poor guy, you know, would have a stroke, You know. And George was looking into the face of Aronson and, you know, continued praising the Nazis and look what effect it has on Lev, who is a close friend of George. Of course, Lev was terribly bitter—and I understand, after that, Lev and him went to drink vodka the whole night. So, well—that's the type of person you have.