Mr. Jenner. In those subsequent discussions were some of them private in the sense you were not gathered around with others?
Mr. Thornley. Well, I don't recall us ever having a private serious discussion. A couple of times we were working together. There would be others around, not on a constant basis anyway, but coming and going, and as I recall a couple of times we were thrown together. Working together, we weren't having a serious discussion; we were joking.
Mr. Jenner. Did you have occasion in those additional half dozen instances of discussions with him, the viewpoint you have just expressed, that is, that his initial raising of the issue was more by way of provoking or shocking those about him rather than any utterances on his part of sincerity in a belief that communism was itself a religion?
Mr. Thornley. It became obvious to me after a while, in talking to him, that definitely he thought that communism was the best—that the Marxist morality was the most rational morality to follow that he knew of. And that communism was the best system in the world.
I still certainly wouldn't—wouldn't have predicted, for example, his defection to the Soviet Union, because once again he seemed idle in his admiration for communism. He didn't seem to be an activist.
Mr. Jenner. Would you explain what you mean by idle in his admiration of the communistic system?
Mr. Thornley. Well, it seemed to be theoretical. It seemed strictly a dispassionate appraisal—I did know at the time that he was learning the Russian language. I knew he was subscribing to Pravda or a Russian newspaper of some kind from Moscow. All of this I took as a sign of his interest in the subject, and not as a sign of any active commitment to the Communist ends.
Mr. Jenner. You felt there was no devotion there. That it was somewhat of an intellectual interest, a curiosity. But I don't want to put words in your mouth, so tell me.
Mr. Thornley. I wouldn't put it quite that weakly. While I didn't feel there was any rabid devotion there, I wouldn't call it a complete idle curiosity either. I would call it a definite interest.
Mr. Jenner. A definite interest.