On Tuesday the statement was made here that a man who is able to take five or six hours prevocational training at a hospital has no place in a hospital and should be in training. I think that statement should be qualified somewhat. It may easily happen that a man who can safely take five or six hours prevocational training in a hospital would soon break down under vocational training, for the reason that while he is in hospital his entire life is supervised; he must take a rest hour; he must turn in at a given time at night; he is assured of three or possibly more proper meals a day. Those conditions do not obtain when that man becomes a trainee and I sincerely hope that the follow-up nursing system which the Veterans’ Bureau is putting into effect now will result in a more careful supervision of the trainee’s life, so that when it is found he is living not wisely but too well he may be given proper advice and be returned to the hospital before the breakdown occurs.
This afternoon the subject of hospitalizing the tuberculous veteran in n. p. hospitals was discussed. I rather think it a somewhat sweeping assertion to say that every tuberculous individual with mental symptoms should be hospitalized in a t. b. sanitorium. We will all grant that men with signs and symptoms of an active tuberculosis disease should be hospitalized in an institution for the treatment of tuberculous. But to my mind that does not hold where the disability is clearly a mental disorder; that man is ambulant. The other man gives no trouble whatever because he is bed-ridden. I have no doubt that every t. b. hospital commander here today has had such cases. Your ambulant case, with few if any indications of active tuberculosis but who notwithstanding is tubercular, when he develops mental symptoms is not only a source of annoyance in the tuberculosis hospital but is destructive of morale. His place is clearly in a hospital for the treatment of mental cases.
DR. M. C. GUTHRIE, U. S. VETERANS’ BUREAU: This matter affects us administratively from a different angle. Many of the general hospitals have wards for the cure of tuberculosis. We presume that the turn-over must be fairly rapid. When men have accumulated in sufficient number and their disposition is determined as to whether they should go to a tuberculous institution, and they refuse to go, shall we turn them out or shall we let them stay?
SURGEON L. M. WILBUR, USPHS: If the transfer is suggested in the interest of the physical welfare of the patient and he refuses to accept that transfer, he is interfering with treatment. The regulations provide for that.
SENIOR SURGEON T. R. PAYNE, USPHS: I don’t agree with some of the t. b. men. I think a man can make a fight if he is dissatisfied and does not want to go and I think you will do harm in transferring him. If a man is home-sick and will not improve, I think he will do very much better to stay just where he is and you ought not force that man to go somewhere where he will not be satisfied. A sanatorium is a school to teach men how to live. In a general hospital you will have trouble in enforcing a rest hour because there are a great many other men in the institution who are not compelled to do so. The pass privilege is another thing. Some patients have but one pass a week and other patients get passes frequently. It serves to dissatisfy the t. b. men as they felt they were not on an equal footing. That is the only objection I can see.
SENIOR SURGEON J. E. DEDMAN, USPHS (R): There are several things that occur to me. In the first place there is the question of food. Of course that is the vital thing in every hospital. In our hospital, as I said before, we have a large number of negroes and what you give to the white boys in the north is not satisfactory to the colored patient. I think it is an important thing to try to give the men what they want in the way of food.
When I went to Greenville it was the custom to give the men breakfast at about seven o’clock; luncheon at 10:30; noon meal at 12 o’clock; at noon the men were not hungry and were generally dissatisfied with the food; at 3 o’clock, after the rest hour, they would have another nourishment; supper was served at five o’clock and as a rule they did not care much for that. Then we would send over to the wards large quantities of milk and eggs and bread and butter. They did not need any base balls. They played ball with apples.
It occurred to me that that was a bad system. We omitted the morning nourishment and the afternoon nourishment and I substituted an evening cafeteria luncheon thinking that it was a long gap from the supper at five o’clock to breakfast at 7. We thereby saved a great deal of money and since we did that we find the patients think the food is fine. We also find that they sleep better by taking this light luncheon just before they retire. I mention that for what it is worth.
The rest hour is important in tuberculosis. That is why hospitalization is so essential, because men will not take proper rest. We have a morning rest from 9 to 10, afternoon rest from 1 to 3 and evening rest from 6 to 6:45. The last period is not universal, and we wonder how you can get an accurate record of a man’s condition when you do not get his evening temperature. We find that it has been a great help to us. When I instituted this rest period from 6 to 6:45 I told the men it was for their good and although they objected at first, it appealed to their reason, after they were told why it was done, and we have had no trouble.
Another thing we have inaugurated along this line. I talked with Dr. Smith last spring. He agreed to send to our hospital a school for chiefs. I think this was a most helpful thing, because we had chiefs of medical staffs come to us and take a course that would tend to make for uniformity in administrative medical work in our tuberculous hospitals. I have talked since that time with several of the men who came down to take that course and I believe every one of them expressed the opinion that it was very helpful to him to have an opportunity to exchange ideas and to have the same methods for carrying of medical staff work which required tact and executive ability.