The next day a jury was sworn, and Sir Thomas Aleyn was called.
Lord Chief-Justice Hyde—Pray, Sir Thomas Aleyn, tell your knowledge to the jury.
Sir T. Aleyn—May it please your lordships, and you gentlemen of the jury; Upon Friday morning last was sevennight, I heard of this robbery at Guild-Hall, and the person robbed being my acquaintance, I went to visit him in the afternoon; and coming there, not thinking but the business had been already examined, several persons with Mr. Francis Tryon put me upon the business to examine it. I went and examined the two servants, the man and the maid: upon their examination I found they had supped abroad at a dancing-school, and had been at cards, and came home afterwards; but before they came home, they heard that an ancient gentleman, one Mr. Tryon, was robbed, and then they hastened home. I examined them further, whether they used to go abroad after their master was in bed? The man confessed he had been abroad twenty or thirty times at col. Turner's house at supper, about a year since. The maid denied they had been there at all: but it is true the man's saying he supped there (although it was false) was the first occasion of suspicion of col. Turner.
When I had examined these two, I went to the examination of Turner, Where he was all that day, where at night? he told me, at several places and taverns, and in bed at nine of the clock, and was called out of his bed: but having myself some suspicion of him, I wished him to withdraw. I told Mr. Tryon, that I believed if he was not the thief, he knew where the things were. The old gentleman said, He could not mistrust him, he had put a great confidence in him: but I desired him to give me leave to charge him with it; and thereupon I called him in, but he denied it; but not as a person of his spirit, which gave me some cause of further suspicion. I desired to search his house; nay told him I would, whether he would or no. He desired to go home; I told him, if he would go with them (some persons there) he should: but you shall not speak with your sons or daughters, or servants; they shall be examined by me. They searched his house, the marshal and constable, they said they could find nothing. The old gentleman was very unwilling to charge him with felony; some friends there were as well satisfied as I was, that he was guilty of it; and they brought me a paper that he would charge him: and thereupon I wished him to read that paper, told him I could do no less than send him to Newgate. Says he, you will not undo a family will you? Will you not take bail? No I cannot. What proof have you material against me? I will give you as good bail as any man; give me leave to speak with Mr. Tryon. I did give him leave: he had no sooner spoke with him, but Mr. Tryon would not charge him, he promising to endeavour to find the thief. I took Mr. Turner on one side, and told him, I did as verily believe if he was not the thief, he could find him out, as I believed I should go home to my wife and children; and I said, That if an angel from Heaven should come, and tell me otherwise, I could hardly believe it. This passed on this night: I could not sleep all the night, still it was in my thoughts that this man was the man that had done the robbery.
The next morning Alderman Love told him that if he went presently to the Minories, he would meet with Love's maid, who would help him to discover the person who robbed Tryon; accordingly, taking Major Tasker, whom he met in Bishopsgate, with him, he went without Aldgate, where
I met with two maids that were the persons to shew me the place: the maid told me these were the maids. I bid them come behind me. At the further end of all the Minories I went into the shop, and found col. Turner with his hands in a chest: I charged him to take nothing out, and not to stir himself. There were two wallets, one of £100 and the other £200. I took the keys from him, laid them upon the compter: I went with him into the next room, which was the kitchen, and in another chest was two wallets more: and now the gentleman was speechless. I told him it was just as I told him the last night, that your roguery would come out; what (said I) is become of the rest of the money? Says he, Your haste will spoil all. I called in the maid, to examine her: but she was fearful, and so trembled there was no examining her before col. Turner. But in conclusion, said I, Col. Turner, if you will tell me whether this be Mr. Tryon's money, I will do you all the favour I can. Says he, I cannot say it is his money. I called for a constable, and made a Mittimus to send him to Newgate, thinking he would discover the truth. Said I, Will you give me your examination? He did: It is in court. I asked him whence this money came? He told me it was removed by himself, his wife and children this morning.
Turner—My son and I, I told you.
Sir T. Aleyn—I asked him where he had received it? He told me at a goldsmith's 14 days since: He did not remember his name. I asked why he should remove his own money? His answer was, He did remove it for two or three days, till this foolery was over. When I saw I could get nothing further from him, I discoursed with him touching the remainder of the money and the jewels. Says he, Sir Thomas, do not trouble yourself, you will lose the jewels and the rest of the money by this course; and, says he, I am now in pursuit of them. If you will give me leave to go to the old gentleman, I know all will be well. I was not content to let him go: But presently we called a hackney-coach, and myself and him, and major Tasker went, and carried that money to Mr. Tryon. When we came there, I told Mr. Tryon I thought we had brought £500 of his money; and I did not doubt but I had brought a person that could tell of the rest of the money and jewels. Col. Turner desired to speak with Mr. Tryon himself in private. I gave him leave. He calls me a little after: Sir, says he, Mr. Tryon and I am agreed; I must have this money delivered to me again; I have assured him he shall have all his money and jewels again by 3 this afternoon. I told him I could not agree that he should have the money back again, pressed him that he would stay there, and send for the rest of the money and jewels. But he [i.e. Mr. Tryon] would (if I did not) trust him: Mr. Tryon would have the rest of his money and all his jewels again.
Turner—I said, I would endeavour it.
Sir T. Aleyn—If he had said he would have endeavoured it, I would not have parted with him; but he said he should have the money and jewels, etc.; I told him I would meet him at that time at Mr. Tryon's. Then I took Mr. Tryon, and said Whatever promise you have made in private, you must excuse my assenting to anything against the law: But do not tell him of it, lest you lose the jewels: I must commit him to Newgate, and I must bind you to prosecute him. He desired me if I would not come so early as 3, not till 4 or 5 of the clock, and all would be brought thither. I staid till about 4. In the interim, I heard some particulars, what these maids would testify; which testimony had I received before I had parted with him, I would not have parted with him for any consideration. But when I came thither in the afternoon, I heard col. Turner was arrested, and was then at the Hoop-tavern with the officers. I sent immediately the Marshal and his men to bring him to me. The officers and he came; and then col. Turner told me, I had brought all these things, but the officers prevented me; I was a very unfortunate man: Give me leave but till to-morrow morning at 9, and you shall have all. Said I, I have now heard more; and you must produce the money and jewels if you expect any favour from me, or I know what to do. He pressed very hard for an hour, or almost two, that he might be trusted to go for them; if he did not go Mr. Tryon would lose the rest of his money and jewels. I told him I had rather they should be all lost, than I should forfeit my discretion and reputation. And thus he kept us till 7 or 8 at night. At last he would have gone with one person. I told him, no: If there were enough to secure you, I might give leave. Saith he, the party will not see more than one; for his life would be in danger. Whither would you go? I would go, saith he (to my best remembrance) to Tower-Hill or Whitechapel. I should have met him at 5; and now I must meet him about 9. I will call in the officers: They will tell you, your being upon a Judgment, they will not part with you without the Liberties: Nor will I give leave, because the Sheriffs will blame me. The officers said they could not go without the Liberties, for it would be an escape in law. Pray give me leave to go near those places, and I will send. Nay, then you may as well send from hence. He begged leave to go to the Hoop-tavern, and send for his wife; which I did grant. And there he did send for his wife. They brought me word he had sent his wife for the jewels and the rest of the monies. He sent to me not to think the time too long, for he had notice his wife was coming. I directed the Marshal, when his wife came, he would secure her. About 11 they brought his wife; who told me also she had delivered the jewels: they thought they were in two bags. Then he came to me, and desired to speak with Mr. Tryon in private, and told me Mr. Tryon's soul was pawned to him, and his to the thief, that no discovery should be made. But when I examined his wife what money went from her house that morning, she said she knew of none. Where had you the jewels? She knew of none: But she had a couple of bags that she was sent for: Near Whitechapel or the Tower a person should meet her, and ask what she did there, and she should say she walked up and down for something that should be given her by a person; which, if he did, she was to bring it to him that sent her. He did deliver the two bags, which she delivered to her husband; but what was in them she knew not. There was sir Thomas Chamberlane, Mr. Millington, myself and col. Turner, with Mr. Tryon. The two bags was laid upon a dresser. He told us they were now come; and having performed his part, he hoped Mr. Tryon would perform his. Have you performed your part? Have you brought the jewels and the remainder of the money? He told us the money was not brought: For the £600 I shall give Mr. Tryon my bond, to pay him at six months. We pressed to see the jewels: We run them all over. But I should have told you one thing: She brought a cat's-head-eye-ring upon her finger. This the gentleman was like to forget: He delivered it to me, to deliver that with the rest. When we had told out the jewels we crossed them out upon the printed paper as they were called. She said all that was in the paper, except one carcanet of diamonds and jewels, valued at £200 that is fallen behind the chest or aside. You have £2000 worth of jewels over what is in the paper; but the carcanet shall be forthcoming. He now pressed that no prosecution might be, for two souls were pawned (as I said before) and desired an end of the business. I told him further and pressed him: Said I, I have staid a great while, and would stay longer, if he might have the £600 and the carcanet. But when I saw there was nothing more to be got from him, now (said I) what would you have this poor gentleman to do for you? What he hath promised you I know not; he is a stranger to the law: If there had been but you two had it, and it had not been published to the world, and the neighbours' public examination taken, somewhat might have been between ourselves. But would you have this gentleman bring himself into danger? He will lose all his goods again; for he will be indicted himself. What will he be the better for discovery, when he must lose his jewels and money, and be liable to a prosecution, as you will be, were he so ignorant? Do you think that I understand the law no better, being a justice of peace, to bring myself into danger? All the kindness I can do for you is (to be short), I must send you and your wife to Newgate. 'How say you, master Alderman?' Then I had better to have kept the jewels. Those were his words; to the best of my remembrance he said so. My lord, I asked him several questions: Why he should give a bond for £600, if he were not concerned in this business? But he knew not what to answer. Saith he, Will you not take bail? Said I, I can take no bail: I must send you to the common gaol, and then I am discharged. Pray send me to the Compter. No I cannot. Do you think I would make an escape? I cannot tell; but I would not bring myself into danger. He prayed me I would give him leave to go home. I must make my warrant: If the marshal and constable will do anything, I shall not direct them. He desired his wife might go and fetch some linen.