After the usual civilities the Count began the conference by informing Mr Jay, that the Court had received intelligence from the Havana, of Congress having so far complied with the request made to them to permit the exportation of provisions for the use of his Majesty's fleets and armies there, as to give license for shipping three thousand barrels of flour, circumstances not admitting of further supplies at that time; that this business was conducted by Mr Robert Morris in a manner with which he was well pleased; that Congress had also, in order to promote the success of the Spanish operations against Pensacola, &c. agreed to make a diversion to the southward, to detach a considerable body of regular troops and militia to South Carolina under General Gates; that his Majesty was well pleased with, and highly sensible of, these marks of their friendly disposition, and had directed him to desire Mr Jay to convey his thanks to them on the occasion.
Mr Jay expressed his satisfaction at this intelligence, and promised to take the earliest opportunity of conveying to Congress the sense his Majesty entertained of their friendship, manifested by these measures. He told the Count it gave him pleasure to hear the business of the Spanish supplies was committed to Mr Robert Morris, and assured him, that the fullest confidence might be reposed in that gentleman's abilities and integrity. He requested his Excellency again to assure his Majesty, that he might rely on the good disposition of Congress, and of their evincing it in every way, which the situation of their affairs and the interest of the common cause might render practicable and expedient. The Count told Mr Jay, that he had proposed to the French Ambassador to send to Congress for the use of their army, clothing for ten regiments lately taken in the convoy bound from Britain to Jamaica, and in which the two Crowns were equally interested; that the Ambassador approved the proposition, but had not yet given his final answer. He then observed, that a negotiation for a peace between Britain and Spain appeared at present more distant than ever; that the former had offered his Majesty everything he could desire to induce him to a separate peace; but that the King, adhering to the same resolutions in favor of America, which had influenced his conduct in his mediation for a general peace and since, had rejected them, and that Congress might rely on his Majesty's determination never to give up or forsake America, but on the contrary continue affording her all the aids in his power.
He told Mr Jay, that the Court of London, disappointed in their expectations of detaching Spain, had it in contemplation again to send Commissioners to America to treat with Congress on the subject of an accommodation with them; that this measure was at present under the consideration of the Privy Council, and that there was reason to suppose it would be adopted. He observed, that the English had hitherto discovered much finesse and little true policy; that first they endeavored by their intrigues in France to separate that kingdom and America, but not succeeding there, they sent Commissioners to America; that the last year they attempted to detach France, and this year Spain, and that being unsuccessful in both they would again attempt America; that the best way of defeating their designs was mutual confidence in each other. He remarked, that America could not rely on any promise of Britain, and asked if she was once detached from France and Spain, who could compel an observance of them? Mr Jay thanked the Count for this communication, and assured him, that Congress would not only adhere to their engagements from motives of interest, but from a regard to their honor, and the faith of treaties; that the opinion of Congress on this subject corresponded with that of his Excellency, and that their conduct, with respect to the former English Commissioners, gave conclusive evidence of their sentiments on the subject. Mr Jay promised in case he received any intelligence relative to this matter, his Excellency might depend on its being communicated immediately to him.
The Count appeared satisfied with this, and again repeated his former assurances of the King's good disposition towards America, &c. &c.
Mr Jay informed his Excellency, that the subject on which he was desirous of conversing with him, arose from the paper he had received from M. Gardoqui the 15th instant, containing his Excellency's answer to Mr Jay's letter of the 14th.
Mr Jay then requested the Count to communicate to his Majesty his thanks for the offer he had been pleased to make, of his responsibility in order to facilitate a loan of one hundred and fifty thousand dollars, and also for the promise of clothing, &c. &c. and to assure him, that the gratitude of the States would always be proportionate to the obligations conferred upon them; he observed to the Count, that he intended to attempt this loan in Spain, France, and Holland, and begged to be informed in what manner he should evidence the responsibility of his Majesty to the persons, who might be disposed to lend the money, for that in this and other similar cases, he meant to be guided by his Excellency's directions. The Count replied, that as this matter fell within the department of M. Musquir, the Minister of Finance, he would consult him upon it on Tuesday evening next, and immediately thereafter inform Mr Jay of the result. He then apologized, and expressed his regret for not being able to furnish the money he had expected to supply (alluding evidently to the thirty or forty thousand pounds which, in the conference at Aranjues, the 11th day of May last, he said he expected to be able to supply by the end of this or beginning of next year.) He said he had been disappointed in the remittances expected from America, for he was advised, that two ships, which he had expected would arrive from thence with treasure in December or January next, would not come, and that this and other circumstances rendered it impossible for him to advance us any money in Europe. But that he would, nevertheless, agreeably to the King's intentions, give us all the assistance in his power.
Mr Jay desired to be informed, whether any steps were necessary for him to take for forwarding the clothing at Cadiz to America. The Count answered, that he waited the French Ambassador's answer on the subject, and that he had as yet no inventory of them, but that he would again speak to the Ambassador, and make arrangements for sending them on to America as soon as possible.
Mr Jay then proceeded to regret that the pleasure he derived from these instances of his Majesty's friendship to the United States, was mingled with pain from being informed by the abovementioned paper, that the King conceived he might have just cause to be disgusted with them.
Because, 1st; they had drawn the bills of exchange without his previous consent; and, 2dly, because they had not given any tokens of a recompense. Mr Jay reminded his Excellency that these bills were drawn upon himself, and not on Spain, and although that Congress might have hoped, for reasons already assigned, to have been enabled to pay them by a loan from his Majesty, yet that every other usual measure was left open for that purpose. That an application to Spain for such a loan could give no just cause of offence, for that if it had not been convenient to her to make it, all that she had to was to have told him so, and he was then at liberty to take such measures for procuring it elsewhere as he might think proper. The Count replied, that what Mr Jay observed was true, but that certainly the bills were drawn with an expectation of their being paid by Spain, and that this might probably have been done if previous notice of the measure had been given. That he always intended to have done something towards their payment, but had been prevented by disappointments, and the exigencies of the State. Mr Jay continued to observe, that the second cause assigned for this disgust, viz. that Congress had given no tokens of a recompense, must have risen from a mistake. He reminded his Excellency, that he had never requested a donation from Spain, but that on the contrary he had repeatedly offered to pledge the faith of the United States for the repayment with interest, within a reasonable time after the war, of whatever sum his Majesty might be so kind as to lend them. To these remarks the Count said only, that interest for the money would have been no object with them; that they would gladly have lent it to us without interest, and repeated his regret at the disappointment which had prevented them. He appeared rather uneasy and desirous of waiving the subject.
Mr Jay next called the Count's attention to a part of the paper in question, which informed him "that there were hints (though no credit was given to it) of some understanding between America and the Court of London." He observed, that this subject was both delicate and important; that so far as this understanding related to Congress, or the governments of either of the States, he was sure that this insinuation was entirely groundless; that there might possibly be intriguing individuals, who might have given cause to such suspicions; that if there were such men or bodies of men it would be for the good of the common cause that they should be detected, and their designs frustrated. He therefore requested, that if his Excellency had any evidence on this subject, he would be pleased to communicate it, and thereby enable him to give Congress an opportunity of taking such measures as circumstances might render proper. The Count said, he had nothing specific or particular as yet to communicate. That he was pursuing measures for further discoveries, and that he would mention to Mr Jay whatever information might result from them.