SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: Dr. Sauter suggests it would be convenient if I indicate the view of the Prosecution.
THE PRESIDENT: Yes.
SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: May I ask the Tribunal to note that Dr. Sauter is asking for witnesses 1 to 8, except witness 5, as oral witnesses; that is, he is asking for seven oral witnesses, and Numbers 5 and 9 to 13 by way of affidavit.
The Prosecution suggest that, as far as oral witnesses are concerned, the defendant might have Number 1 or Number 2. that is, Wieshofer or Hoepken, because these witnesses appear to cover the same ground; that he might have Number 3, the witness Lauterbacher, who was Chief of Staff of the Reich Youth Leadership (Reichsjugendführung); and, also, that he might have Number 8, that is Professor Heinrich Hoffmann, who, I think, is Schirach’s father-in-law—since the description of his evidence takes up nine pages of the application, he is obviously a very important witness.
Then the Prosecution suggest that there might be affidavits from Number 5, Scharizer, who was the deputy Gauleiter of Vienna; Number 11, who is Madame Vasso; Number 12, Herr Schneeberger; and Number 13, Field Marshal Von Blomberg.
The witnesses that the Prosecution find difficulty in perceiving the necessity for are: First of all, Number 4, Frau Hoepken—there are no details given in this application, except that she was secretary to Von Schirach; Number 6, the witness Heinz Schmidt, who apparently repeats part of the evidence of the witness Lauterbacher word for word; Number 7, Dr. Schlünder, who also repeats the witness Lauterbacher word for word; and Number 9, Dr. Klingspor, who passes a personal view on the defendant, which, in the submission of the Prosecution, is not really helpful evidence; and finally, Dr. Roesen, Number 10, who speaks as to an isolated incident of kindness on the part of the defendant to the family of the musician Richard Strauss.
This is the position which the Prosecution take with regard to the witnesses.
DR. SAUTER: Your Honors, I have, in the case of Baldur von Schirach also, limited my evidence as much as possible. For a personal hearing, here before the Tribunal, I have proposed as witnesses, Numbers 1, 2, 3, 6, 7, and 8, and I must earnestly request you, Your Honors, to grant me these witnesses.
The difficulty, in the case of Schirach, as regards the presentation of evidence, is that evidence must be produced and offered for two entirely separate complexes. One is the activity of the Defendant Von Schirach in his capacity as Reich Youth Leader; and the second is his activity in Vienna, during the period from 1940 to 1945, in which he still exercised certain functions in Youth Leadership in addition to his main duties. Therefore, I need witnesses for both these activities of the Defendant Von Schirach.
In addition to this difficulty there is still another one. The Defendant Von Schirach was Reich Youth Leader, and that implied that practically without exception all his collaborators were relatively young people who during the second World War served a long time in the Army. Therefore it is quite possible that for a few years during the World War one witness might know nothing at all, because he did not work on the staff of the Defendant Von Schirach during this time; and that therefore, for this time, another collaborator of Schirach will have to be called upon, in order to give information on his activity.