THE PRESIDENT: Very well.
SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: The first witness is Von Lersner and there is no objection. This witness is called to cover, among other things, the period of the coming into power of the Hitler Government, which is a time of material importance in the case against Von Papen.
If the Tribunal would consider the next three witnesses, there is a minor point: The witness Tschirschky was, as I understand it, Von Papen’s private secretary from 1933 to February 1935. That is, he covered the period of the rise to power of the Nazi Party. And he also covers some of the Austrian period.
The next witness, Von Kageneck, is also a private secretary. He does not cover the period of the rise to power, but covers the whole Austrian period.
The next witness, Erbach, was counsellor at the Embassy in Vienna, that is, he covers the period 1934 to 1938.
The Prosecution has always been reluctant to oppose the calling of secretaries who could assist the memory of the defendant, but it did seem to us that the witness Tschirschky was cumulative both on the period of the rise to power and the Austrian period and that it would be sufficient to have interrogatories in that case. Therefore, the Prosecution, apart from that, would not object to Von Kageneck and Erbach.
THE PRESIDENT: That is, you suggest interrogatories for 2 and calling 3 and 4?
SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: Yes, My Lord, interrogatories, and calling of 3 and 4.
THE PRESIDENT: Yes.
SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: And with regard to Number 5, the witness Kroll, the Prosecution submits that he is irrelevant. He is called for the period when the defendant was an ambassador in Turkey and he allegedly is able to say that Von Papen had no aggressive thoughts with regard to Russia. The Prosecution would submit that Von Papen is really the person who can speak on a matter like that, and the Prosecution has had no evidence as to any subversive activity of the Nazi Party in Turkey; which is the other point that this witness is said to speak on.