MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: You have no doubt of the death of Heydrich, have you?
GÖRING: I am absolutely certain about that.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: And probably of Bormann?
GÖRING: I am not absolutely certain of this. I have no proof. I do not know, but I assume so.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: And those are the chief persons in your testimony, who have been mentioned as being responsible—Hitler for everything, Goebbels for inciting riots against the Jews, Himmler, who deceived Hitler, and Bormann, who misled him about his will?
GÖRING: The influence exerted on the Führer varied at different times. The chief influence on the Führer, at least up till the end of 1941 or the beginning of 1942, if one can speak of influence at all, was exerted by me. From then until 1943 my influence gradually decreased, after which it rapidly dwindled. All in all, I do not believe anyone had anything like the influence on the Führer that I had. Next to me, or apart from me, if one can speak of influence at all, Goebbels, with whom the Führer was together quite a good deal, exerted an influence in a certain direction from the very beginning. This influence wavered for a time and was very slight, and then increased greatly in the last years of the war, for it was easy to win influence by means of . . .
Before the seizure of power and during the years immediately following the seizure of power, Hess had a certain influence, but only in regard to his special sphere. Then, in the course of the years, Himmler’s influence increased. From the end of 1944 on this influence decreased rapidly. The most decisive influence on the Führer during the war, and especially from about 1942—after Hess went out in 1941 and a year had elapsed—was exerted by Herr Bormann. The latter had, at the end, a disastrously strong influence. That was possible only because the Führer was filled with profound mistrust after 20 July, and because Bormann was with him constantly and reported on and described to him all matters. Broadly speaking these are the persons who had influence at one time or another.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: You took over a special intelligence organization in 1933 which was devoted to monitoring the telephone conversations of public officials and others inside and outside of Germany, did you not?
GÖRING: I have explained that I had erected a technical apparatus which, as you said, monitored the conversations of important foreigners to and from foreign countries—telegrams and wireless communications which were transmitted not only from Germany to foreign countries, but also from one foreign country to the other through the ether, and which were intercepted. It also monitored telephone conversations within Germany of: (1) all important foreigners; (2) important firms, at times; and (3) persons who for any reason of a political or police nature were to be watched.
In order to prevent any abuse on the part of the police, this department had to obtain my personal permission when it was to listen to telephone conversations. Despite this there could, of course, be uncontrolled tapping of wires at the same time, just as that is technically possible everywhere today.