DR. KAUFFMANN: [Turning to the defendant.] Are you ready?
KALTENBRUNNER: Yes. There is a mistake on your part, Dr. Kauffmann. I have not contested my signature, but have stated that I must assume that I received knowledge of this order only after it had been published and that the original order presumably did not carry my signature. That is what I said. But I do remember now, through the clause, “certified-Employee,” that it was apparently an order of which the original was signed by me at the time.
Furthermore I remember from the first few words of the decree, “The Reichsführer SS has approved...” et cetera, that this order was based on a personal report which I must have made to Himmler, and that with this report—I call your attention to the date, 26 July 1943—I apparently made the first attempt with Himmler to mitigate or alleviate the conditions; namely, that in such cases for which people hitherto were committed to concentration camps they should in minor cases no longer be put in concentration camps but in labor education camps and that there was to be a differentiation between concentration camps and labor education camps. Therefore, in my opinion it was the result of my first attempt with him against the system of concentration camps.
And third, I would like to point out that this decree carries the number IIc and thereby is not a decree which came from the Police executive offices such as State Police or Kripo but from the administrative level.
DR. KAUFFMANN: That is a sufficient explanation.
The Prosecution hold you responsible for the commitment of politically and racially undesirable persons into concentration camps. How many concentration camps became known to you after your appointment as Chief of the RSHA?
KALTENBRUNNER: At the time of my appointment I knew three concentration camps. At the end of my official activity there were 12 in the entire Reich.
DR. KAUFFMANN: How many were there in all?
KALTENBRUNNER: There was a thirteenth. That was the SS prison camp near Danzig. There were altogether thirteen concentration camps in the Reich.
DR. KAUFFMANN: How can you explain the chart which you saw here with the many red dots which were alleged to be concentration camps?