WAGNER: The subject was the Führer’s intention of renouncing the Geneva Convention. The result was the unanimous opinion that such a step would be a mistake. Apart from military consideration we especially held the conviction that by renouncing the Geneva Convention both the Armed Forces and the German people would lose confidence in the leadership, since the Geneva Convention was generally considered to be the conception of international law.
FLOTTENRICHTER KRANZBÜHLER: In your notes there is a sentence, “One would have to carry out the measures considered necessary without warning and at all costs ‘to save face’ with the outer world.” What is the significance of that sentence?
WAGNER: That sentence means that on no account should there be any irresponsible actions. If the leaders considered it necessary to introduce countermeasures against air attacks on open German towns, or against the propaganda for desertion in the West, then one should confine oneself to such countermeasures which appear necessary and justifiable. One should not put oneself in the wrong before the world and one’s own people by totally repudiating all the Geneva Conventions and announce measures which went far beyond what appeared to be necessary and justifiable.
FLOTTENRICHTER KRANZBÜHLER: Were any concrete measures discussed in this connection or were any such measures even thought of?
WAGNER: No. I can remember very well that no specific measures were discussed at all during the various conferences. We were mainly concerned with the total question of whether to repudiate the Geneva Convention or not.
FLOTTENRICHTER KRANZBÜHLER: Did you ever learn anything about a so-called intention on Adolf Hitler’s part to shoot 10,000 prisoners of war as a reprisal for the air attack on Dresden?
WAGNER: No, I have never heard anything about that.
FLOTTENRICHTER KRANZBÜHLER: The expression “to save face”—doesn’t that mean secrecy, hiding the true facts?
WAGNER: In my opinion it was certain that there was no question of secrecy, for neither the countermeasures against air attacks nor the measures of intimidation against desertion could be effective if they were concealed.
FLOTTENRICHTER KRANZBÜHLER: How long did this whole conversation which you recorded last?