MR. DODD: Very well; that is what I wanted to know. I will now show you the document USSR-172. A part of this document was read over the system for the Tribunal by Colonel Pokrovsky. Now you will observe that on 2 October—this is a memorandum, by the way, made up of the meeting. Herr Martin Bormann compiled these notes, so I assume he was there too. After a dinner at the Führer’s apartment there developed a conversation on the nature of the Government General:
“The treatment of the Poles and the incorporation already approved by the Führer for the districts Petrikau and Tomassov.”
Then it says:
“The conversation began when Reich Minister Dr. Frank informed the Führer that the activities in the Government General could be termed very successful. The Jews in Warsaw and other cities were now locked up in the ghettos and Kraków would very shortly be cleared of them. Reichsleiter Von Schirach, who had taken his seat at the Führer’s other side, remarked that he still had more than 50,000 Jews in Vienna whom Dr. Frank would have to take over. Party Member Dr. Frank said this was impossible. Gauleiter Koch then pointed out that he, too, had up to now not transferred either Poles or Jews from the District of Ziechenau, but that these Jews and Poles would now, of course, have to be accepted by the Government General.”
And it goes on to say that Dr. Frank protested against this also. He said there were not housing facilities—I am not quoting directly, I do not want to read all of it—and that there were not sufficient other facilities. Do you remember that conference now?
VON SCHIRACH: Yes, I have refreshed my memory now.
MR. DODD: Yes. And you suggested that you wanted to get 50,000 Jews moved into Frank’s territory out of Vienna, didn’t you?
VON SCHIRACH: That is not correct. The Führer asked me how many Jews were still in Vienna, and at that time—I mentioned this during my own testimony the other day and it is contained in the files—there were still 60,000 Jews in Vienna. During that conversation, in which the question of settling Jews in the Government General was discussed, I also said that these 60,000 Jews from Vienna were still to be transferred to the Government General. I told you earlier that as a result of the events of November 1938 I was in favor of the Führer’s plan to take the Jews to a closed settlement.
MR. DODD: Well now, later on, as you know from USA-681 concerning which your own counsel inquired, Lammers sent you a message in Vienna and he said the Führer had decided, after receipt of one of the reports made by you, that the 60,000 Jews in Vienna would be deported most rapidly, and that was just 2 months after this conference that you had with Frank and Koch and Hitler, wasn’t it?
VON SCHIRACH: Yes, since 1937—and I think that becomes clear from the Hossbach minutes—the Führer had the idea of expatriating the Jewish population. This plan, however, did not become known to me until August 1940 when I took over the Vienna district. I reported to Hitler on that occasion, and he asked me how many Jews there were in Vienna. I answered his question, and he told me that he actually wanted all of them to be settled in the Government General.