DR. SAUTER: Yes, but through the testimony of the witness I should like to settle the fact that it was not later than April 1943.
THE PRESIDENT: He said that already. He said it. He said, “I cannot say when it was, but it was not after April 1943.” He said: “In April 1943 I was discharged from the hospital and began my service in Vienna. I knew every day where Schirach was.” I have got that all written down.
DR. SAUTER: Very well. Witness, in this conversation about his visit to Mauthausen did the Defendant Von Schirach tell you anything to the effect that on this visit he got to hear of any atrocities, ill-treatment, and such things?
HOEPKEN: No, he said nothing about that.
DR. SAUTER: Witness, I now turn to the question of the deportation of Jews from Vienna. As far as I know you were an ear-witness of a conversation between the Reichsführer SS Himmler and the Defendant Schirach. Will you tell us what was said in this conversation on the question of the deportation of Jews?
HOEPKEN: I believe it was in November 1941; Himmler and Schirach were motoring through East Prussia from Himmler’s quarters to his special train. In the car Himmler asked Von Schirach: “Tell me, Von Schirach, how many Jews are still in Vienna?” Von Schirach answered, “I cannot say exactly. I estimate 40,000 to 50,000.” And Himmler said: “I must evacuate these Jews as quickly as possible from Vienna.” And Schirach said: “The Jews do not give me any trouble, especially as they are now wearing the yellow star.” Then Himmler said: “The Führer is already angry that Vienna, in this matter as in many others, is made an exception, and I will have to instruct my SS agencies to carry this out as speedily as possible.” That is what I remember of this conversation.
DR. SAUTER: Do you know anything about the anti-Semitic speech made by the Defendant Von Schirach in September 1942 at a Congress in Vienna, which the Prosecution submitted to the Court?
HOEPKEN: Yes, the contents of the speech are known to us.
DR. SAUTER: I want to know whether you know anything about it, especially whether Schirach said anything to you about why he made this anti-Semitic speech?
HOEPKEN: I know from the press officer Günther Kaufmann, who was mentioned yesterday, that directly after this speech Von Schirach instructed Kaufmann that every point in the speech should be telephoned to the DNB (Deutsches Nachrichtenbüro) in Berlin, with the remark that he had every reason to make a concession to Bormann on this point.