MR. DODD: Well, the point of it all is that, knowing Seyss-Inquart, and as he had been in the closest association with the Nazis, and having had your experience at Berchtesgaden, are you serious when you tell the Tribunal that you really thought—you really believed Seyss-Inquart when he said he wanted to maintain some independence for Austria?
SCHMIDT: I doubted that, too, at the time, just as I still doubt it today. What went on in his head I cannot say.
MR. DODD: I am not asking you for that. I am asking you what went on in your head.
Now, you had a conversation with the Defendant Von Papen about Seyss-Inquart not too many years ago, did you not?
SCHMIDT: Yes.
MR. DODD: Now, tell the Tribunal when and where that conversation took place.
SCHMIDT: I met Von Papen in Turkey—it must have been in the late autumn of 1943. Our conversation turned on the events of 11 March 1938. At the time Von Papen expressed himself in a severely critical way about the procedure at that time, about Seyss-Inquart, for the reason, he thought, that he had done nothing for the independence of Austria, and also because the procedure had not served German interests either. He wanted to express his criticism by this, and I had the impression that he was indeed against a violent solution, that is, against a solution by violence such as had occurred.
MR. DODD: Well, I want you particularly to tell the Tribunal just what it was that Von Papen said about Seyss-Inquart—and this was 1943, was it not, not 1940? It was when you were in Turkey and so was Von Papen? Or was he not?
SCHMIDT: Yes, he was.
MR. DODD: Now, maybe I can help you a little if you have forgotten. Did not Von Papen say that he would not shake hands with Seyss-Inquart?