WIMMER: Yes.
DR. STEINBAUER: Who ordered that and who carried it out?
WIMMER: I know of the case because—that is, I know of it from the report of Brigadeführer Schöngarth, who was at that time the Chief of the Security Police. He had applied to me to find out what his proper title was, after Rauter had become incapacitated for duty and he had to sign a proclamation and in so doing add his official title. On that occasion he told me this story and he also told me that he had gotten in touch with Berlin, to find out what they would consider necessary as reprisals for the attempt on Rauter. Berlin wanted a considerable number of hostages shot. He mentioned a figure to me which was something like 500, at any rate, not less than 500, but rather more than 500. Then he also told me that he had talked to the Reich Commissioner and told him about this wish on the part of Berlin.
DR. STEINBAUER: Would you be more specific please; Berlin is large and had various Reich offices.
WIMMER: That was the Reichsführer SS, of course; it was quite clear that where one of the highest functionaries in the sphere of the Police and SS was concerned one had to approach the Reichsführer SS personally, and not only his office. He also told me he reported it to the Reich Commissioner, and that the Reich Commissioner, who as such was not authorized to deal with that matter, had asked him to tell the Reichsführer SS that he asked and advised him to refrain from carrying out such a large number of executions. Thereupon—naturally everything was done only by telephone—the Reichsführer agreed to reduce the number and I believe that in the end, on the basis of several telephone conversations back and forth, a number of about 200 or 150—I no longer know it exactly today—was decided upon.
I am convinced that if this advice and this request and these representations had not been offered by the Reich Commissioner through Schöngarth, the number originally demanded by Berlin would have lost their lives, so that one can say with full right that in this case the Reich Commissioner saved the lives of several hundred Netherlanders.
DR. STEINBAUER: Were the people who were actually shot collected at random in the streets or were they people who had already been officially condemned?
WIMMER: Of course, on this point, I can only report what Brigadeführer Schöngarth told me at that time during the conference. Indeed I have no reason to assume that he did not tell me the truth. He informed me that only such persons were considered who had already been condemned, so that it was only a question of advancing the time of the execution, and if the number should not suffice, then possibly others might be selected who in any case were already in prison and would certainly be sentenced to death.
DR. STEINBAUER: I believe I can conclude this chapter by asking you what happened to the hostages who were sent as such to Buchenwald by way of a so-called Dutch East Indian reprisal.
WIMMER: After some time, I no longer remember just how long, when complaints were received about their treatment, a large number of these hostages, or perhaps all of them, were brought back into the Netherlands and a very large number of them were released; not all together and at once, as I remember, but a few at a time.