DR. VON LÜDINGHAUSEN: And that he was honest and sincere in this agreement? What is your opinion? I point out here that the Prosecution asserts and makes it a charge against Herr Von Neurath that this agreement was concluded with a treacherous intention.
VON PAPEN: I spoke in detail on that point yesterday, and protested against the Prosecution’s charging us with treacherous intentions. Herr Von Neurath had such intentions just as little as I did.
DR. VON LÜDINGHAUSEN: Now I have two more brief questions.
Do you know what attitude Herr Von Neurath took as to Germany’s leaving the League of Nations and the Disarmament Conference in 1933?
VON PAPEN: Yes, I know that very well. Herr Von Neurath was of the opinion that it was advisable to leave the Disarmament Conference. But, like me, he was of the opinion that it was a mistake to leave the League of Nations. With his approval, as I told the Court yesterday, I followed Hitler to Munich at that time in order to persuade him not to leave the League of Nations.
DR. VON LÜDINGHAUSEN: I have no more questions, Mr. President.
DR. SEIDL: With the approval of the Court, substituting for my absent colleague, Dr. Stahmer, I should like to ask a question on behalf of the Defendant Göring.
Witness, this morning you said that in connection with the murder of your friend Ketteler in 1938 you turned to Göring because he was in charge of the Gestapo. Is it not a fact, and were you not aware of this fact, that from 1936 on, at the latest, the Gestapo was exclusively under Himmler and was formally under the Reich Minister of the Interior?
VON PAPEN: It is possible that through my 4 years’ absence from Germany in Austria I did not know that fact. It has been established here, of course. In any case, I had the feeling when I turned to Göring that he was in a position to defend me against the Gestapo; and after Hitler had refused to speak to me on this matter, it was only natural that I should turn to him as the second man in Germany.
DR. SEIDL: I have no more questions.