DR. FRITZ: Are you implying that no one in the Propaganda Ministry knew of the imminent campaign against Russia?
VON SCHIRMEISTER: No. The following gentlemen in the Propaganda Ministry knew about the Russian campaign—if I may presume, a letter to Dr. Goebbels from Lammers offered a clue for it, for in it Lammers told the minister in confidence that the Führer intended to appoint Herr Rosenberg to be Minister for the Occupied Eastern Territories; the letter also asked Dr. Goebbels to name a liaison man from our ministry to Herr Rosenberg personally, and that, of course, gave away the secret. The people who knew of this were the minister; Herr Hadamowsky, as his provisional personal representative; Dr. Tauber, the liaison man to be appointed; I, myself, because by accident I had read this letter; and the head of the foreign press department, Dr. Böhme. Dr. Böhme, and this is very important, told me on the day before his arrest in the presence of Prince Schaumburg-Lippe that he had received this information from Rosenberg’s circle, that is—and I want to emphasize this—not from our ministry or from our minister. Otherwise, as heads of two parallel departments, both would, of course, have been informed. If Böhme did not know it from the minister, then Herr Fritzsche could not have known it either. As a result of a careless remark on this subject, Böhme was arrested on the following day and later killed in action.
DR. FRITZ: Now I want to summarize this part of my examination in the following general question: Did you ever notice that before important political or military actions of the Government or the NSDAP, Goebbels exchanged ideas about future plans with the Defendant Fritzsche?
VON SCHIRMEISTER: It is quite impossible that that occurred; it would have been in complete contradiction to the minister’s principles. Not only did he not exchange ideas on future plans but he did not even inform anyone.
DR. FRITZ: Now we shall turn to a different subject. The Prosecution charges the Defendant Fritzsche with having influenced the German people in the idea of the master race and thus with having incited hatred against other nations. Did Fritzsche ever receive instructions at all to conduct a propaganda campaign on behalf of the theory of the master race?
VON SCHIRMEISTER: No, under no circumstances. In this connection, one must know that Dr. Goebbels could not at all use this Party dogma and myth. These are not things which attract the masses. To him the Party was a large reservoir in which as many different sections of the German people as possible should be united; and particularly this idea of the master race, perhaps on account of his own physical disability, he ridiculed and rejected completely; it did not appeal to him. Shall I answer the question of hatred now? You also asked me about that.
DR. FRITZ: Yes.
VON SCHIRMEISTER: A propaganda of hatred against other nations was quite contrary to the propaganda line as set out by Dr. Goebbels, for he hoped, and to the end he clung to this hope like a fata morgana, that one day he could change from the policy of “against England” and “against America” to the policy of “with England” and “with America.” And if one wants to do that one cannot foster hatred against a nation. He wanted to be in line with the nations, not against them.
DR. FRITZ: Against whom then was this propaganda in the press and on the radio directed?
VON SCHIRMEISTER: Primarily, against systems; it was Dr. Goebbels who established the concept “plutocracy” in the sense in which the whole world knows it today, later the concept “Bolshevism” was added from the other side. Sometimes his propaganda was directed against some of the men in power; but he could not get the full co-operation of the German press on that point. That annoyed him; and in a conference he once said, “Gentlemen, if I could put 10 Jews in your place, I could get it done.” But later he stopped these attacks on personalities such as Churchill; he was afraid that these men would become too popular as a result of his counterpropaganda. Apart from that he did not hate Churchill personally at all, secretly he actually admired him; just as, for example, throughout the war he had a picture of the Duke of Windsor on his desk. Therefore the propaganda of hatred was directed temporarily against individual men but always against systems.