Q. Did Rascher give you any further explanation of this letter?
A. Since this letter prevented me from doing anything, I calmly asked him what idea he had of these experiments, what he wanted to do, what he wanted to achieve. He said that Dr. Fahrenkamp would help him and that he would have electrocardiograms for heart failure from the most various reasons and would compare them with electrocardiograms in the case of death at high altitudes with the change in severe altitude sickness and with later recovery. In addition, in the hospital in Munich he had taken electrocardiograms in cases of heart failure. In Dachau, he said, he had also registered electrocardiograms when there were executions by shooting. If he really had evaluated all this material together with a heart specialist, then it would, of course, have been quite valuable.
Q. Now, did you do anything, and what did you do in order to stop Rascher’s experiments and did you incur any danger and, if so, what?
A. What I did against Himmler’s orders and against my signed promise to keep secrecy, the fact that I reported the incidents to my boss who passed the information on—all this was dangerous. One probably understands enough about conditions under Himmler to realize that. The witness Neff has described my attitude to Rascher’s experiments. He confirmed that I intervened in one case when he was present. Perhaps he knows nothing about my other objections. In general, the discussions between Rascher and myself did not take place in the presence of the prisoners. The low-pressure chamber was removed from Dachau earlier than intended at our instigation. Against Rascher’s and Himmler’s wishes, it was never returned to Dachau. The extent of the accusations made by the SS in this direction is shown by the document. These efforts begin with Wolff’s telegram to Milch on 12 May, which is answered in the negative in Milch’s letter of 20 May. (343-A-PS, Pros. Ex. 62.) In answer to further efforts from Himmler, Milch ordered that the chamber was to remain 2 months longer in Dachau. (NO-261, Pros. Ex. 63.) At this time, we had already removed the chamber. On 5 June, Rascher again writes to Himmler about the low-pressure chamber. Document NO-284, Prosecution Exhibit 64, is the answer to this letter of 5 June. The letter itself is, unfortunately, not available. This letter, no doubt, says that the chamber was removed from Dachau in May, while the prosecution alleges that the experiments continued until August. Then there is a certain pause in Rascher’s and Himmler’s efforts, because Rascher is busy with the cold experiments. When the film is shown in Berlin in the Air Ministry, Rascher does not forget to tell Milch again of his wishes in regard to the low-pressure chamber. But hardly has the first phase of the cold experiments—the series with Holzloehner—been finished, when he writes to Himmler again on 9 October. (1610-PS, Pros. Ex. 73.) He asks Himmler to get him the low-pressure chamber so that he can continue his experiments and qualify as a professor. In the letter of 21 October 1942 (NO-226, Pros. Ex. 75), Sievers writes to Brandt about the continuation of the high-altitude experiments which Himmler wants, but knowing of the existing difficulties, or for other reasons, he adds that Himmler will no doubt have to write to Milch personally in order actually to get the chamber. This happens on 27 November 1942 (NO-269, Pros. Ex. 78)—a letter from Wolff to Milch, on behalf of Himmler. The definite request for the low-pressure chamber, which is expressed in this letter, is given definite emphasis by mention of the opposition of the Luftwaffe doctors. I learned from a telephone call from Sievers, which he mentioned in his testimony, that he was to buy a low-pressure chamber for Rascher on behalf of Himmler. I was greatly astonished at this telephone call at the time, because I knew very well that Rascher certainly didn’t want to have this made public in any way. Now, this telephone call has been cleared up. Then I informed Ruff of this call and he had Becker-Freyseng take further steps, as he said here yesterday. In an official letter to various SS agencies, dated 13 December 1942 (1612-PS, Pros. Ex. 79), Rascher is given the assignment by Himmler personally to carry out high-altitude experiments. On 14 March 1943 (NO-270, Pros. Ex. 110), Rascher tells of his discussions with Hippke and again says that he wants to carry out low-pressure chamber experiments, together with me; and finally, on 18 November 1943 (NO-1057, Pros. Ex. 463), he tries again, through the Reich Research Council in agreement with Himmler, to get a mobile low-pressure chamber in order to carry out experiments. Those are Rascher’s and Himmler’s efforts but, nevertheless, Rascher never again had a low-pressure chamber at his disposal for experiments.
Q. Well, what do you want to prove by these statements?
A. This no doubt proves clearly how great Rascher’s and Himmler’s efforts were and that my conduct under these circumstances was not only not cowardly, but that it was much more clever and much more successful. Even if I had had any legal obligations to prevent him by force, if I had had any obligations to attack Rascher and if I had tried and been unsuccessful, then I would have been locked up or killed and Rascher would have been able to continue his experiments for a long time without any restriction.
Q. At that time, was there any possibility in Germany to resist, and in what did you see such possibility?
A. There were only three types of resistance possible. First of all, emigration for a person who was able; second, open resistance which meant a concentration camp or the death penalty, and to my knowledge, never met with any success; third, passive resistance by apparent yielding, misplacing and delaying orders, criticism among one’s friends, in short, what writers today call “internal emigration.” But that really doesn’t have much to do with the question. As far as the direct question of prevention is concerned, I would like to say something more. To take a comparison from the medical field, it is unknown to me and I cannot imagine, for example, that an assistant of a scientific research worker who is performing infections with a fatal disease, for example, leprosy, on a prisoner, that this assistant should prevent the scientist from carrying out this infection by force—perhaps by knocking the hypodermic syringe out of his hand and crying “You mustn’t do that, the man might die!” I could imagine that some assistant might, for personal reasons, refuse to participate in such experiments, but I cannot imagine that if there were a trial against this doctor the prosecution would demand that the assistant should have prevented the scientist in this manner.
Q. Then, you are convinced that prevention by force was impossible?